Bill Clinton- great President! - but PUMAs are hateful.

Bill Clinton was probably the best President in our lifetimes (look at the competition), unless you were old enough to be alive when FDR was President.  JFK was good after the Bay of Pigs, which was organized by Eisenhower/Nixon, and he showed great promise by 1963, but he only had 2.7 years in office.

Clinton brought us 8 years of peace and prosperity, and he got the budget back into balance - a major accomplishment.  His average popularity was around 60%.

It's simple - Clinton is the best President since FDR, and in the top third of all Presidents in our history, maybe in the top 25%.  We had a lot of lousy or run of the mill Presidents since FDR.  He'd rank below Washington, Lincoln, FDR, and a handful of others, but was better than most of the Presidents of the 19th and 20th centuries.

So he was better than Johnson (Vietnam), Nixon (obviously), Reagan (Iran-Contra, massive budget deficits, S&L disaster, attack on unions, October Surprise of 1980), Bush 41 (economy stupid & involvement in iran-contra), Truman (Atomic bombing of Japan, screwed up the entire East Asian part of the world, Korean War fiasco, very unpopular during his term in office), Eisenhower (U-2 incident, set the stage for the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Cuban missile crisis, McCarthy hearings, right-wing frenzy of the Eisenhower era, blacklisting), Ford (slightly dimwitted, allowed Cheney and Rumsfeld to run things, accomplished nothing, pardoned Nixon), and Carter (nice and decent man, good with human rights, but economic disaster and Iran hostage crisis).

The PUMAs, on the other hand, are going to try to throw this election to John McCain, which would be a disaster for America.  The Clintons will, hopefully, completely disavow the so-called "PUMA" movement and throw their support entirely to Barack Obama.



Display:


they have already thrown their support to obama. (2.00 / 3)

but nice try.  as to PUMA - what can she do more than she has done?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 02:24:59 AM EST

Re: they have already thrown their support to obam (2.00 / 2)

As far as I can tell, PUMA has taken on a life of its own, and no longer has anything to do with the Clintons.


by Cincinnatus on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 02:29:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you betcha... (2.00 / 2)

in fact, check this out.

clinton staffers are assembling a "whip team" to mobilize in case of anti-Obama protests by Clinton supporters during the convention.

Members would stand in front of protesters and raise Obama signs.

"Is it typical for a losing candidate to have their own whip team? No. But it's also not usual for a losing candidate to get 18 million votes."


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 02:33:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Is it typical (1.66 / 3)

for a losing candidate to have their own whip team?"

No. But neither is it typical for a former candidate to have supporters willing to injure her and her party in front of the entire world.

I expect the few actual McPumas who show up will be thoroughly browbeaten into silence by all, including Hillary's former supporters.


by Glaurung on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:25:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How many of those whips (1.50 / 4)

are going to be devoted full-time to keeping Bill muzzled?


by Dumbo on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 06:14:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How many of those whips (2.00 / 1)

I expect him not to send his and Hillary's own reputations to the bottom of the ocean.


by Glaurung on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:57:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama denigrated each of the Clintons - blamed (1.00 / 5)

Bill, the baby boomers and peace activists for today's woes, but worse, insinuated that they were closet racists. Let him try to win without their supporters, that he so arrogantly stated, he didn't need. I'm a proud PUMA  and will not reward his behavior - leaving for Denver, Friday to try to disrupt as much as I can to disprove his unity crap - I'm not voting republican but 3rd party all the way! I want my party back and him, out, because of his disgusting politicking!


by suzieg on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 03:49:32 AM EST

Re: Obama denigrated each of the Clintons - blamed (none / 0)

Have fun out there, you'll be welcome back whenever you care to return.


by Cincinnatus on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 03:57:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama denigrated each of the Clintons - blamed (none / 0)

Politics is Politics and between Obama and Hillary one of them had to lose.

If as I suspect he gives her VP I expect her and Bill to embrace him and cover the attack that he is not ready.

I also expect him to embrace them and cover the attack that they are racist.

At which point I expect all the PUMAs to come home where ever that may be..

If Team Obama is willing to embrace Hillary we need to stand ready to EMBRACE Obama.

After all we would have expected as much from them if the tables were turned no?

But if she isn't the VP its on like donkey kong...


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:19:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama denigrated each of the Clintons - (2.00 / 2)

How sad that such selfish, small minded people as you and your PUMA friends will work so hard against the best interests of this country.
"Purists" like yourself got us 8 years of Geroge Bush, along with 9-11, two wars, a failing economy, $4 gas, and millions of people losing their homes.
The Justice Department, Alberto Gonzales, Donald Rumsfeld, Monica Goodling. Roberts and Alito, and corporate "personhood".
Hillary must be very ashamed that the Right Wing was able to sucker these weak minded creatures into voting not only against their own best interests, but against Hillary's as well.
Wallow in your bitterness, PUMAs, it will be the only thing that you have left if the Right Wing wins.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 07:30:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama denigrated each of the Clintons - blamed (none / 0)

This is nuts. I probably shouldn't respond, since the poster is clearly more interested in being angry than in having a discussion. But just so others reading aren't mislead by the ranting...

"Obama denigrated each of the Clintons" is absurd. He ran against Hillary, and did so quite successfully, but was quite civil in doing so. He pointed out her flaws, and where they disagreed on policies, but never attacked her personally. The only way that he could have been more polite would have been for him not to run, which isn't how democracy works.

"blamed Bill, the baby boomers and peace activists for today's woes" where does this come from? Obama blamed Bush, the oil companies and the Republicans for screwing up the last 7 years, while pointing out that some problems (e.g. unemployment in Appalachia) were longer term. There's NAFTA, which Bill and Hillary promoted and got passed, and took credit for at the time, so it's entirely fair to hold them accountable for how it's turned out.

"insinuated that they were closet racists" Didn't happen. The Clintons used the usual southern tactics to appeal to racists ( I grew up in the South, and it's all pretty familiar stuff there), but that doesn't make the Clintons racists themselves, just politicians trying to get the votes of racists, which is how you get elected in states with lots of racists.

"their supporters, that he so arrogantly stated, he didn't need" Obama has run as the most inclusive candidate, reaching across to 'opponents' to work with them to get things done, and has clearly stated that in the general election he needs the support of all Democrats, not just the people that supported him in the primary.

"3rd party all the way" the elections in 1992 and 2000 illustrate the error of this logic - if enough people waste their votes on third party candidates, they can throw the election to the worst of the two real options. Or did you really think that there was no difference between Gore and Bush?

"his disgusting politicking" Yeah, how dare Obama run against my chosen candidate!


by laird on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 07:36:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama denigrated each of the Clintons - blamed (none / 0)

Everything is "Barry's" fault, didn't you get the memo?


by Dog Chains on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:45:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama denigrated each of the Clintons - blamed (none / 0)

You'll just wind up caged in one of those free speech zones a mile from the convention. But it's as good a way to waste money as any. Please post photos when you get back.


by Glaurung on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:59:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't get tased (none / 0)

or do.  Either way, really.


by JJE on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:04:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton- great President! (none / 0)

We will be greeting PUMA's here in Denver with
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ss6xe7mv 50
"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:38:10 AM EST

Re: Bill Clinton- great President! (2.00 / 1)

simply calling anyone who disagrees with you on a detail or a policy a "PUMA" and/or "hateful" is an indication of your inabilities, not anyone elses.


by zerosumgame on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:39:25 AM EST


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