Obama's Choice

John Kerry announced his choice of John Edwards for VP on July 6, 2004, exactly 20 days prior to the first day of the 04 Democratic convention. If Barack Obama follows the same schedule, he will announce his choice on Tuesday, August 5. Certainly one suspects the announcement will come prior to the commencement of the Olympics on Friday, which means the likelihood is that the announcement will come some time in the next 5 days (just not on Thursday, Barack, OK?, I'll be on a plane.)

But who will it be? First let's look at the short lists. From The New York Times:

Evan Bayh
Joe Biden
Hillary Clinton
Chuck Hagel
Tim Kaine
Sam Nunn
Ed Rendell
Bill Richardson
Kathleen Sebelius

The Wall St Journal strikes Hagel, Nunn, Rendell and Richardson from their list and adds:

Jack Reed
Chris Dodd

The latest buzz has been Tim Kaine, a prospect that has been just about universally panned throughout the blogosphere and one that has been picked up by the trading markets.

From Justin Wolfers:

"The vice-presidential shortlists are getting a lot shorter -- and, on the Democratic side, prediction-market traders are moving sharply towards a new favorite. Virginia Governor Tim Kaine, who rated only one-in-ten odds a week ago, is now given a one-in-three chance of winning the number two slot.

Even though Democratic operatives have floated a shortlist with seven possible picks (Senators Biden, Bayh, Dodd, Clinton and Reed, plus Governors Kaine and Sebelius), prediction markets suggest there are really only four serious candidates. Beyond Mr. Kaine, Mr. Bayh is the second favorite with a one-in-four chance, followed by Ms. Sebelius with a one-in-six chance, and Mr. Biden with a one-in-eight chance."

While the WSJ market gives "the field" -- in other words, anyone other than the top 4 -- only a 20% chance, I share Wolfers's skepticism about this CW top 4.

Even though I think the markets have the candidates in the right order, I would still be shorting the favorites, as it remains likely that someone pulls a rabbit out of a hat.

Sean at FiveThrtyEight concurs:

For my own gut sense, I have never been comfortable with the conventional wisdom surrounding Obama's VP pick. There's something nagging about it, and no hard numbers to support my feeling. Perhaps it's the "think different" approach to many aspects of the campaign - the next-level social networking, the unprecedented 50-state massive organizer approach, the generalized no-leak culture among decision-makers, etc. It strikes me that in multiple important key ways, the Obama campaign has made conscious departures from the conventional wisdom norm.

For me, my skepticism about the Kaine/Sebelius buzz is that I've never really bought into the "reinforcement" theory of VP choice. Some prominent bloggers have said, essentially, that Bill Clinton had it right when he chose another Southern young white dude because it reinforced his strength as opposed to shoring up his weaknesses. Barack Obama, the theory goes, needs to pick someone who reinforces his core message of change rather than worrying about using the VP pick to allay people's fears about his lack of national security experience. The problem with this is that Gore actually did fill a void in Clinton's resume; Gore had a ton of what Clinton lacked: Washington experience. I think the Obama campaign has calculated that he needs to do the same thing.

My gut tells me a couple of things. First of all, Barack is not going to pick someone who needs to be introduced to the country. He has enough of an uphill climb introducing himself to the nation, is he really going to pick another unknown quantity for the ticket? So that leaves us with a different list, which, let's say for argument, looks like this: Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Wesley Clark, Joe Biden, Bill Richardson, Chris Dodd, Sam Nunn.

Among these possible picks, some are known thanks to their extensive Washington, DC resumes (Clinton, Biden, Nunn, Dodd), some are not (Clark, Edwards, Richardson.) So, which list will Obama pick from? You'll recall that in the primary, Barack ran against Washington experience and turned what Hillary thought would be her top selling point into an albatross around her neck with one very effective line: "are we just going to keep sending the same people to Washington and expect a different result?" In other words, if you've spent a lot of time in DC then how can you expect to change it? He could and should be using the same line against McCain, but he's not. The other day I noticed him almost say it at one of his townhalls, but he caught himself. Why? My gut is that he's leaning toward picking a Washington insider for his VP. My guess is it's Biden.

So if I were a betting man -- actually I am, but I'm not betting on this -- I'd short the top 3, buy up some Biden and not count Clinton out just yet. I'm not holding out some real hope that she'll be picked, mind you, I'm just not convinced that the signs of her demise as a possible VP pick -- e.g. her speaking on Tuesday at the convention, the shuttering of VoteBoth -- are dispositive. But contrary to CW I'd put her as more likely than Kaine or Sebelius at this point but I really don't expect it to be any one of the three of them.

What's your gut telling you?

Update [2008-8-3 4:23:10 by Todd Beeton]:I'm realizing I should have included Evan Bayh on my Washington insider list but he strikes me as really not well known and, well, a really boring pick. I've also always thought the psychological benefit of simply putting a Hillary supporter on the ticket was overblown. But two strategists on CNN tonight are predicting Bayh.



Display:


Re: Obama's Choice (2.00 / 1)

Some commenter on 538 mentioned Jeff Bingaman as
a possible choice.  He could be valuable on the energy issue.  And apparently McCain is vetting Eric Cantor (Jewish, VA but unknown outside his state).

I'm still hoping for Hillary.  How do you make up
the deficit among Democrats?


by esconded on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 07:37:37 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

I think the Keynote means that she is off the table. Too bad. She is such a huge political talent.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:09:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the keynote means nothing (2.00 / 2)

and is not written in stone. This could easily be a fake-out so the story isn't about Hillary Clinton until he nominates someone. Dick Cheney was the guy who was supposed to pick Bush's VP, which after should have "meant" he wasn't gonna be VP. WRONG. Bush Sr. gave a keynote address before the 1980 GOP convention, when everyone still thought Ford was gonna be it. Well I hope people thought again. This keynote address thing means nothing.


by Lakrosse on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:31:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary Would Mean Nothing To Obama (none / 0)

Unless He Totally Changed His Campaign To Let Her Attack!

Hillary would have found a way to call McCain a senile old coot by now. She wouldn't let a day go by without launching another attack ad on "my good friend John McCain."

That might be more fun for Democrats (me included), but not necessarily better.

But, it would mean a total reversal of his entire election strategy which is focused on non-traditional Red states: picking up Virginia, Colorado, Indiana, New Mexico, Nevada and Iowa. In all of these he's either narrowly trailing or leading. Picking Hillary would sink him in most of these.

Hillary's campaign would be all about Ohio, Florida and Arkansas. Adding those three states would pick up 58 electoral votes, so even subtracting Michigan and New Hampshire from Kerry's 252 leaves (310 - 21 EV = 289 EV).

But you have to run a completely different campaign to secure them. Obama might win Ohio, but Florida is out of reach and Arkansas so far out of reach as to be in orbit.

He would need to let her loose on McCain. If she's bound and gagged and forced to take the "high-road" it's pointless to take the hit of choosing her in the first place.

Never going to happen in a million years.


by Cugel on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 12:26:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the keynote means nothing (none / 0)

I agree with Lakross. Clinton is still in this.
In my opinion he will choose Clinton or Biden.
by Politicalslave on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 05:19:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

The most logic non-name never seems to come up. It seem quite obvious a surprise is coming. And it seems quite obvious the surprise is Obama's first big time mainstream supporter. Someone with experience both in foreigh affairs nd the economy. And government. And is still an outsider. Today anyway.

TOM DASCHEL


by ObamaNation on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 09:58:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i think its gonna be sebelius (2.00 / 1)

even though im not happy about it.


BHO/HRC 08
by omar little on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 07:44:13 PM EST

Re: i think its gonna be sebelius (2.00 / 1)

Sebelius buys him nothing.
It makes no sense.
John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:10:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i think its gonna be sebelius (none / 0)

Boy, I hope she doesn't get it.

As the diary said, Obama has enough on his hands just introducing himself.


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (2.00 / 2)

I think there very well could be a surprise.  So what if Clinton is scheduled to keynote? It's not as if that's impossible to change.

That said, I think Clinton as vp is unlikely in large part because of Bill's business dealings.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 07:45:12 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (2.00 / 1)

I've been thinking there may be another surprise this week in the form of a prominent Obacan endorsement.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 07:46:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

My boyfriend was saying that exact same thing today.
He thinks it will be Colin Powell for the following reasons:

1)Obama and Hillary are going on their bus tour in Ohio so that will dominate a few days.

2)Powell comes out and denounces McCain and his tactics so if the media gets bored with the bus tour they have Colin to talk about.

3)The Olympics start in six days and it sucks all the oxygen out of McCains free media gimmicks. The media hates Hillary but loves to focus on her and combined with a Powell endorsement, McCain will be lucky if he gets ANY media coverage before the debates(he can't get his negative message out).


by sweet potato pie on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:50:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Powell is the name that's come to my mind as well. I wouldn't be surprised if McCain's antics push Powell to do this.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:26:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

I hope you are right. I would love to see Powell
go after McCain.
by Politicalslave on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 05:22:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain's Choice (none / 0)

Actually choosing Powell as a VP might be a good strategy for McCain.  In fact, if I were McCain, I think that's who I'd pick.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 06:45:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain's Choice (none / 0)

Powell wouldn't be on a McCain ticket.

Powell supports Obama.


John McCain, maverick
by lojasmo on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 07:43:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain's Choice (none / 0)

Powell didn't like Bush much, and took a job in his cabinet.

If offered the job, I don't think he'd say no.  In which case, he wouldn't be endorsing Obama.

Which for McCain, would be a double plus.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 07:50:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain's Choice (none / 0)

I think what he learned from serving in Bush's cabinet is that taking offers with people you have fundamental disagreements with is a bad idea. Lest you forget, not only did they tarnish his name, they made him into a bad guy and all but fired him. John McCain once showed signs he would not behave that way, but no longer.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 09:29:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you have confirmation (none / 0)

of that bus tour?  I cannot find any information about it.  Would they be doing joint townhalls together?


by Blazers Edge on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:40:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If it was Powell I would barf my guts out. (none / 0)

I would turn inside out in disgust. But it will never be. Obama might accept, with little comment, his endorsement --- maybe. Encourage him to go the route of Scott McClelland, explaining and delineating the lies he was party to, the deception he foisted on the world, the unnecessary slaughter he created with his deceptions. Then I would hope Obama could fulsomely accept his participation in the prosecution of war crimes, until then I would hope, that the democratic party, and the Obama campaign would have little to do with him. BTW on his lies to the world, no one outside the U.S. believed him. Even Blair's government knew they were fabrications as the Downing Street Memos reveal, and the millions marching all over the world demonstrate that the lie was obvious to others.
by Exiled on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 09:36:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If it was Powell I would barf my guts out. (none / 0)

It's funny, anytime Powell's name is brought up as a potential endorser/veep for Obama, everyone always mentions his speech in front of the U.N. promoting the Iraq War as a disqualifying factor.  Yet other candidates for vp like Evan Bayh and Joe Biden are taken very seriously and their votes in favor of the Iraq War are never even brought up.

Despite being one of the top 3 or 4 people in the world most responsible for making the Iraq War happen, choosing Powell for vp would at least have some major PR value in a "reaching across the aisle" sense.  That alone would make him preferable to Evan Bayh IMHO.


by Will Graham on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 09:57:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If it was Powell I would barf my guts out. (none / 0)

Voting based on documents that were, as Scott McClelland and others have exposed, is different from, knowingly spreading those false statements, cherry picked fabrications and distortions. It is one thing to say, "really? this is what's happening?" then voting, trusting the source, and being the source of the fabrications. And Powell has said he knew "at least some" of the facts he peddled were lies.
by Exiled on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 11:37:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Who would be endorsing? Powell?


by Politicalslave on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 05:12:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree. (none / 0)

He's been pulling her down since last fall.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:52:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Evan Bayh is my prediction.

Clinton is out of the running.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 07:50:18 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

On the Veepwatch front, nothing's on Obama's schedule yet, but the traveling press registration e-mail has us flying to South Bend at 6:30 p.m. Tuesday and not leaving until 3:25 p.m. the next day.

It seems seems like an awfully long time to be in one place. (Where exactly is Evan Bayh?)
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2 008/08/02/1243444.aspx


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 07:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

I don't believe he is going to go the road of shoring up his " weakness " by picking a long term member of washington .

Bayh is half way in between fresh face and insider , he can help in Indiana and helps some with the clinton folks.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:00:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

A random thought on this one, but there's been some speculation that Obama may pick from "the field", i.e. someone not receiving major (if any) play on Intrade, Rasmussen Markets, etc.

With this news, I think its worth mentioning that former Indiana Congressman and 9/11 Commission Member Tim Roemer is a South Bend native and received his M.A. and Ph.D. from the University of Notre Dame.

Roemer, who has solid national security credentials along with a pro-life voting record, is a strong Obama backer and had been mentioned as a dark horse VP possibility.


by Practical Progressive on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:08:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Roemer is Catholic and is the president of a national security think tank that just gave awards to Joe Biden and Brent Scowcroft.  Previous presidents of that think tank include three former U.S. Secretaries of State, Madeleine Albright, Edmund Muskie and Cyrus Vance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_ National_Policy

http://www.cnponline.org/


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:38:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Roemer falls into the category of someone who could help Obama govern and he's between being an insider and an outsider. Here's some personal information.

Tim Roemer married Sally Johnston in 1989 and they have four children: Patrick, Matthew, Sarah and Grace. They attend St. Thomas a' Becket Catholic Church and live in Great Falls, Virginia.  Roemer enjoys coaching his children's basketball teams, reading history and biography, playing sports, and collecting old, used first edition books.
http://www.cnponline.org/ht/d/sp/i/1321/ pid/1321


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:41:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (and an anti choice VP? No.) (none / 0)

Come on.
by Exiled on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 09:38:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Except the gov is a repug and that flips a seat. And it looks like Indiana is already running strong for Obama.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

I could live with Bayh, and it hurts McCain in a state he should be able to count on otherwise.


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:24:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

surprise.


"But not me personally were those cheers for"
by QTG on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 07:55:20 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

My gut has been saying Biden all along.  Obama is remarkably gaffe-free and that would be a major concern with Biden, but assuming he can avoid putting his foot in his mouth, he is a pretty straight talker for a senator and checks enough foreign policy boxes to shore up some skittish undecided voters.  And most of all, I think he easily passes the god-forbid-but-he-could-be-president test, which after all should be the threshold measure.  


by snowback on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 07:55:21 PM EST

1988 plagiarism scandal (2.00 / 1)

Any concerns about that with Biden?  Even though an insider, he's my second choice along with Gen. Clark.  He would be great in attacking McCain.  Not so sure about that with Bayh.


by esconded on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1988 plagiarism scandal (2.00 / 1)

I agree. Bayh seems to nice. Biden and Clinton would be good attack dogs.


by Steve24 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:08:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1988 plagiarism scandal (none / 0)

I think the teeth have been taken out of the plagiarism issue after the dem primary this year.  I don't think McCain wants to be digging up scandals from the 1980s or he is going to get hit in the mouth with Keating -- which he should anyway.  Biden is a tough and sharp surrogate and has the same kind of straight talking tone as McCain, which could be an effective response tool.  Main drawback is that he doesn't help deliver any states.


by snowback on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:12:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We should be hitting him in the mouth (none / 0)

with Keating anyway


by activatedbybush on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 12:05:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Picture a debate with Romney vs Biden... (2.00 / 2)

Biden put the final nail in Rudy with  ( "...a noun, a verb and 911.")

Even if Joe may have borrow a line or two, his delivery is effective and from the gut. His heat is a good counter balance to Obama's coolness.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:15:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Picture a debate with Romney vs Biden... (none / 0)

I like Biden a lot. He can twist the rhetorical knife with a smile.  And he did a fabulous job in leading in passing the Violence Against Women Act.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:28:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not Biden (none / 0)

Two plagiarists on the ticket would be too much.   Ouch.

Actually I think that Biden would be a good choice, and that the plagiarism charges are not big deals in the general scheme of things.  

But I think it will be Bayh


by activatedbybush on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 12:07:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not Biden (none / 0)

Plagerists hahah what silly stuff. No one cares--of course. No one should, of course.

We have an economy collapsing, we have Republican corruption pouring billions out of the treasury, we have global warming, we have good paying jobs exported and replaced with WalJobs and McJobs, we have an illegal war on Iraq, we have 4 dollar gas and an auto sector collapsing because it wont give up on gasoline, we have hypocrisy, collapsing bridges and "Family Values Crusaders"(TM) molesting Senate pages, we have 47 million Americans without healthcare, veterans sleeping under bridges and a geriatric old man pretending he still has the capacity to remember the names of countries he is "an expert in", we have schools acting as holding pens, food covered in salmonella, mercenaries and war profiteers:

but voters are going to be upset with the fact that speeches calling for and describing solutions are "all too similar."
by Exiled on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 09:52:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not Biden (none / 0)

Since they all use speechwriters they are all plagarists to some degree anyway. Even Obama, who can write, uses speechwriters.
JFK had Sorenson write a whole book for him.
John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:03:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1988 plagiarism scandal (none / 0)

If Obama's going to pick someone who voted for the Iraq War as Biden and Bayh both did--which would be a huge mistake in my view--he might as well go with Hillary.  At least he could sell the choice as a "unifying the party" move.

How is Obama going to convince voters that his judgment in opposing the Iraq War means anything when his own vp freakin' voted for it?


by Will Graham on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:48:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1988 plagiarism scandal (none / 0)

That isn't a General election issue.  It won him the primary and its done.  


by dtaylor2 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:23:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1988 plagiarism scandal (none / 0)

I seriously doubt anyone cares about plagiarism. This is the age of the internet. Everything gets plagiarized.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 12:37:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1988 plagiarism scandal (none / 0)

Plagiarism doesn't seem to be much of a concern any more.  Heck Obama and Patrick's speech borrowing is closer to plagiarism than what Biden did in 1988.  

The problem in 1988 is that he didn't launch a great defense against the bs plagiarism charge--but in 1988, there was no alternative press/media/blogosphere to back him up, either.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 06:49:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Biden, please.


by danIA on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:30:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (2.00 / 1)

Over the past week, I kept thinking---'If Biden were the VP candidate, how would he swat down McCain?'  Biden often cuts through the baloney and gets to the meat of the discussion.  There is no one McCain could pick that could rival Biden's experience and tenacity.


by Marie Smith on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:06:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Biden (none / 0)

Biden's smack down of Guiliani was masterful..I'd love to see him out there doing the same to McCain.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/30 /biden-rudys-sentences-c_n_70509.html

"And the irony is, Rudy Giuliani, probably the most underqualified man since George Bush to seek the presidency, is here talking about any of the people here. Rudy Giuliani... I mean, think about it! Rudy Giuliani. There's only three things he mentions in a sentence -- a noun, a verb, and 9/11. There's nothing else! There's nothing else! And I mean this sincerely. He's genuinely not qualified to be president."


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 06:53:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Biden will make some mistakes but he is so passionate that it's worth it.


by Politicalslave on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 05:31:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (2.00 / 2)

I pray to god that it is Hillary. Please Barack put Hillary as VP.
This ticket will mean victory and that is all I care about.
Obama/Biden 08
by W126 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 07:57:51 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Hillary is a great talent...but I think giving her the keynote means that she is out of the running. I suspect that's Bill's finances around the library might be compromising.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:16:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (1.00 / 1)

That IS true. If they were being objective and looking at finances, I'm sure Bill has been up to some manner of scoundrelry since he left office.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:33:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

I opposed Hillary during the primary run, but I have to admit that she is an extremely polished campaigner and would make a very effective attack dog as well.  I have no doubt she would win the vp debate hands down.

If Obama and Hillary could keep Bill under wraps, I would probably advise him to wait until the first day of the convention and then surprise everyone by announcing Hillary as veep.  I'm sure the DNC crowd would absolutely eat it up.


by Will Graham on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:59:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Yes which is why he should choose Senator Clinton.
If he announced this at the convention it would be game over for the Republicans. Can you imagine the excitement it would generate?
by Politicalslave on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 05:26:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No way it can be Hillary unless the Clinton's (none / 0)

come clean on their finances, and ARE clean.  


by activatedbybush on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 12:08:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Personally, I don't want her to take that thankless job.  OTOH, if Obama really cared about the country, about solving problems, he wouldn't consider anyone else.  He'd ask her and give her a serious portfolio and let her run with it.

Additionly, he could actually win with her.  Without her it's a tossup.


by Tolstoy on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:00:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My Guess Has Been Biden Too (2.00 / 1)

...his sharp critiques of the Iraq policy, his independence, his working class catholic roots, his brilliance all seem to be factors that will align with Obama. He is an DC guy, but hasn't gotten rich by doing it. He's got a great personal story.

I also think that there is a natural synergy between these two.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 07:58:52 PM EST

Re: My Guess Has Been Biden Too (none / 0)

Obama has spent the past year saying that Hillary's foreign policy experience didn't mean squat because she voted for the Iraq War and therefore had poor judgment.  Wouldn't he look like a hypocrite if he chose a vp who voted for the war as well--as Biden did?


by Will Graham on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Guess Has Been Biden Too (2.00 / 1)

Biden did express regret for his AUMF vote, something Clinton has never done.

Clinton's place on the ticket would create a serious dissonance in that regard. Choosing someone like Clark who also opposed the war would put the ticket in perfect synch.

But a choice like Biden would effectively split the difference, welcoming aboard someone who's since been able to admit the mistake. That strikes me as the kind of message Obama might want to send, both to Washington and to the country.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:34:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (2.00 / 2)

First of all I think we are close to an endorsement from Colin Powell.  

In regards to VP, I think it is asking US citizens enough to accept voting for a black man for the first time for President ... to add a woman in the mix as VP is just asking too much and is TOO much change.

I think it is Bayh or Kaine.


by Monkei on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:05:56 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

You may be right. After all, how many times did we see Obama roll out a very well timed endorsement? Powell and Hagel together, talking about Obama's judgment and leadership, would be so great to see - and would so deflate McCain.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:30:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gut Says Biden, Brain Says Bayh, Heart says . . . (none / 0)

Bob Graham, former FL Senator. I would rather see him on the ticket than either of the other two, but the clues point to either Biden or Bayh. The flight scehdule provided above may be the clincher.


by Davidsfr on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:10:41 PM EST

Re: Gut Says Biden, Brain Says Bayh, Heart says . (none / 0)

But what is in Graham's spiral notebooks?
I think that he might have some mental health issues that would exclude him. Even though I like him.
John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:18:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut Says Biden, Brain Says Bayh, Heart says . (none / 0)

As they say "go with your gut."


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:45:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Biden and Bayh both Voted for the War (2.00 / 1)

Do you think Obama's "judgment over experience" argument will be muddled by the fact that both Joe Biden and Evan Bayh voted for the Iraq War?

Shoot, Bayh even joined a pro-Iraq War propaganda group which included John McCain, Joe Lieberman, and William Kristol.  I think it's fair to say that choosing Bayh for veep would send a very mixed message to voters.  I mean, really, how many times has Obama said that the Iraq War "should not have been authorized"?


by Will Graham on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:09:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut Says Biden, Brain Says Bayh (none / 0)

They both sound good to me.

Bayh could bring a state that McCain would otherwise not have to worry about, tho.

That's something to think about.


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:30:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No Wes Clark? (none / 0)

OK, I've liked Ed Rendell since I got familiar with him in the primaries.  He was a bull-dog of a fighter for his candidate, and stayed out of the mud but short of that pulled no punches whatsoever (which is precisely why he drove us Obama supporters so crazy).

I like the guy.  He's got meat-hooks for hands and blue collar appeal and you could see him buying the next round, telling the best jokes, and knocking senseless someone who raised a hand against one of his friends before they had time to hear the wind of his fist.  He'd go over like free beer in the heartland.

Richardson I like, but call me a wilting lily but even I am afraid that the first black guy and the first latino may be asking too much of the American voters all in one bite.  Same, perhaps, with any female candidate.

Mostly I'd like someone who is the answer to the most pressing concerns the undecided fence-sitters have.  Someone reassuring, solid and experienced.  Or at the very least, completely non-contenscious.

-chris


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:17:07 PM EST

Re: No Wes Clark? (none / 0)

I like Rendell too..and it puts Florida back in play and helps in Ohio  too. I don't see the chemistry that Obama would have with Biden,

Richardson has a bit of a skirt chasing problem...which is still a bit under the radar...but it wouldn;t stay that way.

The latin is a plus, but the other issue rules him out.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:21:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Wes Clark? (none / 0)

No, Rendell can't be it. McBush would use an ad with him standing behind Hillary bobbing his head, during her "Shame on you Barack Obama" meltdown.


by venician on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:27:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Wes Clark? (none / 0)

bobblehead was Strickland of Ohio.


by parahammer on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:31:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Wes Clark? (none / 0)

I'm just thinking all roads are leading to Biden at the moment.
...and on the other side Romney.
John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:41:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Wes Clark? (none / 0)

Also, isn't there video of Rendell introducing and them praising Louis Farrakhan.  Obama doesn't need anymore Nation of Islam stories.


by lamh3176 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:32:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Wes Clark? (none / 0)

Rendell would be a problem, unless Obama thinks Pennsylvania will be "iffy."


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:42:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (2.00 / 1)

Bayh or Sebelius, unless he surprises us with a turnaround and picking Clinton.

I don't think he'll pick Biden or Kaine, as both of those have negatives within the Democratic party and he needs to hold the base. Kaine -- who is not pro-choice -- could be the last straw for Clinton supporters.


by Coral on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:18:12 PM EST

What negatives does Biden Have... (2.00 / 1)

...with dems? I dispute that strongly. He has been a vocal opponent when Obama and Hillary were shrinking from the fight. He has dedicated his life to doing good...except for the bankruptcy bill...but he is from Delaware.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:24:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What negatives does Biden Have... (2.00 / 1)

"Senator MBNA."

He was an early and vocal supporter of the bankruptcy bill, and has generally been as business-friendly as any good Republican.

With that in mind, I still think he's the best choice. He's awesome (and always has been) on foreign policy, he'll give the businesspeople a bit more reason to sit this one out, and he'll put McCain in a really bad comparative light thanks to his vigor and intelligence.


by dal20402 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:04:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What negatives does Biden Have... (none / 0)

Yeah. I already captured that one in my post. Even though he can't be MBNA anymore since it was sold to B of A. But Delaware is the incorporate state for banks.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:11:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What negatives does Biden Have... (none / 0)

What about the fact that Biden voted for the Iraq War?  Do you think that will distract from Obama's message of change?


by Will Graham on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:11:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What negatives does Biden Have... (none / 0)

He's an ego-driven, long-winded, blow-hard who has spent most of his career protecting the banking and credit card industries. Other than that, he's golden!


by LakersFan on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:06:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What negatives does Biden Have... (none / 0)

Like I said, other than that he's golden.
Obama's got his Goldman Sachs pals in droves...
...but that isn't stopping progressives from supporting him.
John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What negatives does Biden Have... (none / 0)

It stops me from being enthusiastic about him. And Biden would make me even less enthused.


by LakersFan on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:28:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i think it's between (none / 0)

Biden, Kaine and hopefully Clark.

Honestly, if it were going to be Hillary than I think they would have already announced it.


by highgrade on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:19:03 PM EST

What is the fascination with Bayh? (2.00 / 4)

Man I would be so fucking disappointed if he were the choice. We need a pitbull for a VP - someone who is going to every state in the union and rip McStain a new one with every speech. We don't need some guy who has been auditioning for the spot for the last 10 years. No more political dynasty types.  


by highgrade on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:21:51 PM EST

Re: What is the fascination with Bayh? (2.00 / 1)

Don't forget about this:

The Committee for the Liberation of Iraq (CLI) is pleased to welcome Sen. Evan Bayh (D-Ind.) as an Honorary Co-Chairman. Bayh becomes the third U.S. Senator to join the committee after Sens. Joe Lieberman (D-Conn.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) announced their participation on January 28.

I think this would muddle Obama's message of "changing the mindset that got us into the Iraq War".


by Will Graham on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What is the fascination with Bayh? (none / 0)

Hillary supporter.

Good resume.

Indiana.


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:44:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

On the surprise front, I still really want it to be Napolitano. As the hugely popular democratic governor of McCain's home state she'd be a great shot across the bow, and her only baggage seems to be that she's single, which I'm really hoping the American people could get the hell over.


by Cincinnatus on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:28:36 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

It's always the single=gay meme at work.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:42:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

...yeah..
Just wondering...
Edwards has not disqualified himself..
(and he more than others has staked out an area=poverty that he could focus on)

That aside...
A female progressive who maintains popularity as Gov
in fucking Kansas...


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:31:18 PM EST

Sebelius will do nothing for him (none / 0)

She won't even be able to carry her own state in the GE for him and it will leave Kansas, and all the Democratic gains there, in a shambles.


by dcrolg on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:39:11 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Damn I wish it was Hillary!! If not I hope is Joe!  Biden that is.  We need to unite!


by nzubechukwu on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:45:00 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (2.00 / 1)

What is interesting is seeing how strong the feelings are for it being Biden across a wide array of opinions. Sometimes ...there is wisdom in mobs.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:47:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

How would Obama explain away Biden's vote in favor of the Iraq War?


by Will Graham on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Unless somehow I forgot the past three or four years, Biden has been the toughest critic of the Bushies and particularly Cheney. Go back and check. Certainly more critical than Bayh, who slept walked through the past 3 or 4 years. No one in the serious pack voted against the war. Even Obama voted to fund it every time but the last time.

Joe has the strong bona fides as a war critique...and given his temperment, it was not polite senatorial civil-dribble.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:45:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

I don't know, I think Biden would be vulnerable to attacks of being yet another typical Johnny-Come-Lately flip-flopping political opportunist.

You don't see it that way, though?  


by Will Graham on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 12:11:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

"Biden's not setting policy, I am."

"He's helping me carry it out and he is the most qualified Democrat for that job."

"I don't want my administration filled with yes men. That's what's wrong with the current administration."

yadda, yadda, yadda.

GW Bush called Reagan's economic proposals "voodoo economics," and they still won how many states?


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:48:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

I don't know.  I'm still skeptical.  If Obama wanted to go the elder-statesman-with-lots-of-gravitas-an d-FP-experience route, why not go with former Senator Bob Graham or former Congressman Lee Hamilton?  They both check that particular box and wouldn't have Biden's Iraq War vote baggage.


by Will Graham on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 12:06:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My gut tells me (2.00 / 3)

that Obama is in serious trouble.  He has already damaged his "brand," by moving away from the change message (FISA, offshore drilling, etc.)

My gut tells me he needs to pick someone who is seasoned, battle-tested, and conversant with international and military issues.  Of the names suggested that would mean Clinton, Biden, Dodd and maybe Richardson.

What he doesn't need is a candidate who is going to elicit widespread moans and cries of "Who???"  


by Radiowalla on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:46:26 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (2.00 / 1)

We know Clinton is out since she has the keynote.
Dodd is out because the gov of Conn is a repug.
Richardson has a reputed skirt chasing problem.
That leaves only Biden on your list.
John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:49:33 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Biden's plagiarism enhances the Obama's not ready tact giving McCain the ability to attack Biden and then direct that at Obama and focus on the you can't trust what they say how would you let them run the government theme.

Clinton on the other hand cancels that out because people think well it wasn't so bad when She did run the government...


by dtaylor2 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:31:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Why do people care about plagiarism? And according to Wikipedia, didn't he actually just forget to cite the source one particular time that happened to be filmed? If this "scandal" happened today, there'd be video evidence exonerating him.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 09:32:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

And besides all of that, just.... why would you think anyone cares about plagiarism as a campaign issue? When done 20 years ago? Bush snorted coke and was a multiple drunk driver. Nobody cared because it was old news.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 09:33:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wes Clark is a standout (none / 0)

He knocks McCain off his game.


It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy,... It's time to stop giving tax cuts to corporations that ship jobs overseas... - Barack Obama
by Lefty Coaster on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:51:51 PM EST

Re: Wes Clark is a standout (none / 0)

Personally I think this guy is a charm...but he is very green when it comes to real campaigning.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:14:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wes Clark is a standout (none / 0)

Wes Clark did actually win a state primary in 2004, which is more than Biden and Bayh put together.


by Will Graham on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wes Clark is a standout (none / 0)

If I remember that was Oklahoma and it wasn't much of a contest.
I like Clark, but he doesn't have the political chops to do battle in this field.
John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:47:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wes Clark is a standout (none / 0)

Actually Clark is pretty good at the type of campaigning we are talking about.
This is surrogate campaigning. Not look at me, look at my boss. Clark does that pretty well.
I find it funny that people dump on him for the Shot Down stuff in the same week Obama's Dollar Bill became the race card.
by Judeling on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 12:00:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

My gut says Clark, and I would not be disappointed with that.  

I think Hillary took herself out (to Obama privately). I don't think Obama eliminated her, and I think she would be a great choice if it were to be.  Of course, that is just my hunch.  I have no proof such a conversation took place.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:54:50 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (2.00 / 1)

Not that anyone cares but....

MY LIST FOR OBAMA'S VP (IN ORDER OF MY FAVORITES)

1. HR Clinton

  1. Richardson
  2. Clark
  3. Edwards
  4. Dodd
  5. Sebelius
  6. John McCain

J/k on number seven, but wouldn't that be hilarious?  Kind of a big "f**k you" to everyone.  I really didn't care much for Clinton until somewhere around the Texas primaries, but she really grew on me.  Richardson has always been a good VP choice, IMO; shoring up the Latino/a vote especially out West.  Clarks' no wimp and would really clean someone's clock in a VP debate.  Edwards was my favorite going into it but I'm just not sure if he'd be baggage as a VP nominee left-over.  Dodd got my attention with his stand over FISA and seemed like a pretty reasonable guy during the early debates.  I don't know Sebelius very well, but she's a governor of a pretty important state and people on this blog tell me she's a progressive too.

WHO DO I THINK OBAMA WILL ACTUALLY NOMINATE?

1. Clinton

  1. Sebelius/Kaine
  2. Clark

Everyone else has about 10% in my highly un-scientific analysis.


$439Billion spent on the US Military and still no universal health care.
by jlars on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:59:53 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

" I don't know Sebelius very well, but she's a governor of a pretty important state and people on this blog tell me she's a progressive too. "

- Why is Kansas a pretty important state ?

What's the matter with Kansas ?

lol


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:14:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Edwards, Edwards, Edwards. He doesn't cost a senate seat, and he brings a certain gravitas/perspective that reinforces Obama but is still differentiated from him. Oh, and if the rumors were true, don't you think Faux News would be blasting it 24/7?


onlinesavant
by onlinesavant on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:14:04 PM EST

Re: Obama's Choice (2.00 / 1)

As an Edwards supporter since 2002 I would welcome that. But I am curious about what happened and why he hasn't fought back.

Some of things connected with this make no sense.

If it were true why would he create a living DNA trail right when he has prepping a run for prez. Makes no sense.

Why the BH Hotel? The least discrete location is all of LA outside of the Venice Boardwalk. Makes no sense.

Why hasn't he struck back. Makes no sense.

In terms of electoral calculus Obama/Edwards would be game over for the repigs.

I wish I knew what was going on.


John McCain: Country Club First!
by demwords on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:19:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Choice (none / 0)

Oh, and if the rumors were true, don't you think Faux News would be blasting it 24/7?

I think this is only because John Edwards isn't currently an office-holder or a candidate for office--in other words, he's just a regular private citizen.

If Obama chose Edwards as his vp, this story would absolutely explode in the MSM.  There's no way Obama would want to tak