Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing

Just about a day after Joe Lieberman said Barack Obama hasn't "always put the country first," the most powerful Democrat in the House had some speculation about Joe's fate come November (via TPM):

"The Democrats in the Senate are in a tough spot. They have 51 votes. Joe Lieberman organizes with them," said Pelosi. "In 85 days or something, they will have five more Democrats -- they won't need him to make the majority. And it will be interesting to see what the leadership in the Senate, the Democratic leadership in the Senate, does at that point in terms of Joe Lieberman's chairmanship of his committee."

I'm a little surprised how specifically Pelosi spoke. So far Lieberman's own boss, Harry Reid, has been vague about what the future holds for Lieberman's committee positions.

That being said, I don't think Reid has too much more flex when it comes to Lieberman. Disagreeing on the surge is one thing, but Lieberman is now providing ammo for the McCain campaign to use in questioning Obama's patriotism. If this keeps up, I wouldn't be surprised if Reid got a bit firmer and gave Joe an "enjoy it while it lasts" statement of his own.



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Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (2.00 / 2)

It's obvious they want Lieberman to think long and hard about how aggressively he wants to campaign for McCain over the next several months.  Of course, he's already burnt all his bridges as far as most of us are concerned, but there's still more damage he can do and I'm glad they're trying to stop him.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:20:07 AM EST

Lieberman doesn't care! (none / 0)

He is no longer a Democrat in HIS OWN MIND. He's a Republican. He's pinning all his hopes on McCain.

Meanwhile Harry Reid is waiting until January to figure out what to do with Joe. My guess is that Reid wishes everything could be swept under the rug and forgotten, but that will be difficult, the way Lieberman keeps drawing attention to himself. There will be tremendous pressure to strip Lieberman of his committees, but certainly NOT before January, so that the Republicans don't get control of the Senate for a bout of last-minute devastation (they could adjourn for instance, allowing Bush to make a massive number of recess appointments).

If McCain wins, then Lieberman will get a job in the McCain Administration, probably a cabinet post.

If Obama wins, then Lieberman will simply switch to the Republican party and they will give him seniority for all the good work he's doing them.

In no case is he going to stop attacking Obama and kissing McCain's ass between now and November. He already had a confrontation with Obama aobut his personal attacks and then Lieberman's spokesman issued a big "fuck you" ("Joe Lieberman won't be intimidated") statement. He basically laughed about it.

He couldn't care less what Harry Reid or anybody else thinks. He's got 4 more years to go in office and he'll figure something out to do in that time because he knows he'll never in hell get re-elected in CT. There are plenty of right-wing jobs waiting for him when he leaves office.

He's already realized that he'll never become President. He already failed miserably in his Democratic quest back in 2004, and the Republicans aren't ever going to nominate him no matter what he does. Conservatives don't like Joe no matter how many countries he wants to bomb.


by Cugel on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:02:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

I wish we could just recall him


work together to save the world
by sarahkatheryn on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:28:57 AM EST

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

I'm a hardcore Democrat but I would rather vote for Trent Lott before Joe Lieberman. I don't agree with Trent Lott on the issues, however, he has more conviction than Lieberman. Lieberman will kiss anyone's ass to advance himself and he's the ultimate flip flopper. He's garbage.  


by Steve24 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:53:06 AM EST

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (2.00 / 7)

I'd never vote for Trent Lott, but I know what you mean.  At least Lott believes what he believes. I seriously doubt Lieberman really believes anything that isn't politically expedient.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:52:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (2.00 / 1)

Only the very center of Bush's cabal repulses me more than Lieberman. He's truly awful.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:58:28 AM EST

if only she was this forceful in (2.00 / 2)

the HOUSE!


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:14:26 AM EST

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (2.00 / 1)

Well, will miracles never cease?  I never thought I'd hear this from anyone in a leadership, let alone Nancy Pelosi. Good on ya, Nancy.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:50:32 AM EST

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (2.00 / 1)

I hope this has been a very instructive year for the Democratic Senators who thought that it didn't really matter whether Lamont, the Democrat, beat Lieberman, the independent, in 2006.  All those elected Dems who scoffed at the notion that Lieberman was just a closet Republican representing a blue state.

We were damn right about Holy Joe, and maybe there's some Dem politicians out there right now wishing they had listened to us and campaigned for Lamont as hard as they campaigned for Bob Casey, Sherrod Brown, Sheldon Whitehouse, Claire McCaskill, Jon Tester, and Jim Webb.


by Skaje on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 06:28:22 AM EST

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

Question is would he have been supporting McCain if it wasn't for Lamount?

If the answer is no and it costs Obama the election maybe you should be the ones doing the listening...

Lieberman is the reason the democrats have held the senate for 2 years.

again

Lieberman is the reason the democrats have held the senate for 2 years.

again

Lieberman is the reason the democrats have held the senate for 2 years.

Lamount almost lost us the senate.

again

Lamount almost lost us the senate.

and one more time because I know it takes repeating for some of this to sink in.

Lamount almost lost us the senate.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 08:48:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (2.00 / 1)

Lieberman is the reason the democrats have held the senate for 2 years.

Irrelevant - Lamont would've caucuses with the Democrats if he had won.  But Lamont wouldn't have carried water for the administration on Fox News every chance he got, and Lieberman was doing that before Ned Lamont ever launched his primary challenge.

Lamount almost lost us the senate.
Utter nonsense.  Schlesinger (the Republican in the race) got 10% of the vote to Lamont's 40% and Lieberman's 50%.

Lamont didn't almost cost the Democrats anything.


by Collideascope on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 08:58:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

OK let me try this again.

Joe Lieberman, after Lamount and friends pee'd in his wheaties could have done a Jeffords and given control to the GOP.

You cannot in one breath say he is GOP and in the other breath assume that he would be a democrat no matter what.

Lamount and friends by rocking the boat nearly gave Bush and friends 2 years of Senate control.  Reid had to trade God knows what to get it back.

If half our party insists on an infantile view of the world where people cannot possibly act in a way that hurts us no matter how much we attack them then we will have no better strategic planning that Bush and company.

And again because I honestly think it takes this much repeating

Lamount and friends was not as well thought out as the Iraq war.

again

Lamount and friends was not as well thought out as the Iraq war.

again

Lamount and friends was not as well thought out as the Iraq war.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:28:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (2.00 / 2)

The thing is Lieberman would not have won if the DEmocratic establishment made an honest effort to back Lamont. Lamont won the primary. Lieberman aided Bush in his biggest blunder and Lieberman was attacking fellow Democrats for the Iraq war while pleading for understanding when he was being attacked for the same issue.

You do understand that LAMONT WON THE PRIMARY??? So there is nothing to think of when your candidate won. You support your party candidate.  Lieberman was given a second life when the party l;eaders refuse to crush him in the closing days of his losing primary.

And your hypothetic situation about Lieberman supporting the Dem presidential nominee if Lievberman won his senate seat unopposed? Ridiculous. Lieberman, even if he supported the DEm nominee, was only going to offer a tepid endorsement at best.  Remember the Kerry campaign in 2004. How come Lieberman was giving speeches in FL that Bush was good for Israel?

And Lieberman would still be attacking DEmocrats on the biggest issue of the day - Iraq and quesetioning their patriotism. I doubt he would be supporting Obama enthusiastically.


by Pravin on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:56:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

"You do understand that LAMONT WON THE PRIMARY??? So there is nothing to think of when your candidate won. You support your party candidate."

Uh no.

There are members of Team Lamont who honestly think that whatever they do to democratic candidates in the primary is automatically forgiven because democrats lose their free choice come general election time.

uh no.

If you didn't learn that lesson collectively with Lamont then get ready to learn it with Obama.  Democracy means the majority wins not the most motivated minority who votes in the primary.  The majority expects to have their candidates win and when that doesn't happen they become unpredictable.

I would have never predicted that I would be voting for McCain prior to a primary that called the Clintons racists and elevated Reagan while diminishing Bill Clinton...

But I could have predicted that I would retain my free choice.

Your mis assumption that you could say anything about the Clintons and count on my support was false.  

If the most motivated believe that they can push the agenda against the majority with the majority falling in line come general election time then we will have a few major defeats like the one we narrowly avoided with the Lamont foolishness and then order will be restored.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:35:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

At the end of the day, you're voting for McCain.

Next----->


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 11:28:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

Give me a fucking break. Lamont supporters attacked Lieberman with no less venom than what Lieberman doled out to them. Lieberman started the demonizing of  other democrats when it came to support of the Iraq war. When it became clear he was going to lose the primary, then he went on this whinefest about how democrats needed to have a big tent. Interesting he never felt the need to accomodate their views on Iraq. The majority of Democrats think Lieberman did a shitty job with his foreign policy which has ruined our focus over the last decade and indirectly lead to more imnportant issues being ignored. Lieberman lost the primary despite backing from establishment democrats. That is a clear defeat from the majority of democrats.

THe problem Lamont faced was lack of time. It is tough to convince everyone in less than a year when you are a newcomer and you are facing off against a multiterm incumbent with fake gravitas.


by Pravin on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:02:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

TYPO: i meant Lamont supporters didnt attack Lieb with no greater venom


by Pravin on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:03:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lieberman WOULD be Supporting McCain! (none / 0)

No matter WHAT. It's all about the "surge."

Lieberman isn't costing Democrats anything. He only appeals to voters who think we should occupy Iraq for another 100 years. And THOSE are only Republicans and Republican leaning Independents who weren't going to vote for Obama anyway.

Sure, Lieberman hates the base of the Democratic party that rejected him over the war and enjoys giving everybody the finger, but in reality he just loves the "surge" and is a war-hawk.

So, who's he going to support in the election? McCain "surge to victory!" or Obama "withdraw in 16 months?


by Cugel on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:07:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (2.00 / 1)

Rubbish.
Conneticut is a Mickey Mouse State. That is, if Mickey Mouse was running as  Democrat, he would win. As the poster below me said, Lamont and Loserman garned 90% of the vote, with Lamont getting 40%. With Loserman not running, are you going to tell me that Lamont wouldn't have gotten 11% of the 50% that voted for Holy Joe?

Against a generic Republican candidate? Remember, Lamont beat joe in the Primary. It was only because the RNC went harder for Joe than the DNC went for Lamont, that Joe won.


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:09:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (1.00 / 1)

Primary democrats are further to the left than general election democrats.

Lamount was the first time that they pushed too hard in modern memory.  Obama will probably be remembered as the 2nd.

If you over play your hand thinking that no one could possible counter anything you do because they are soooooo mickey mouse and you have the (D) next to your candidate's name you will lose.

But history being what it is showed that Lamount lost.

Stop and think about that.

In a state where Mickey Mouse could with with a (D) Lamont lost.

Again

In a state where Mickey Mouse could with with a (D) Lamont lost.

Again

In a state where Mickey Mouse could with with a (D) Lamont lost.

Lamont and friends nearly found a way to give the state to the GOP

Again

Lamont and friends nearly found a way to give the state to the GOP

Again

Lamont and friends nearly found a way to give the state to the GOP


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:35:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Your copy-and-paste style is really annoying! (none / 0)

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McCain sucks!
by teknofyl on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:38:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your copy-and-paste style is really annoying! (1.00 / 1)

=)

It was meant to be.

Those who deny Lamont nearly gave Bush 2 years of Senate control need a bit of a jolt to get their systems going.

Political actions have consequences.

Kos and Lamont nearly gave the senate to the GOP.

Nader gave the presidency to Bush.

There is a wing of our party that would like to cover their ears and sing la la la al I am not listening to try and drown these facts out.

But political actions ALWAYS have consequences and need to be judged on the consequences not on the intentions.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:47:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your copy-and-paste style is really annoying! (2.00 / 1)

But you're voting for John McCain, which mean you're ginving your vote to the GOP.

How is this not hypocrrisy again?


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 11:30:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why is it that you don't apply that to Lieberman? (2.00 / 1)

Being a political asshat has consequences.

Specifically, he is now utterly despised by most Democrats and the electorate of Conneticut.

Lamont's run was necessary.  Lieberman managed to cheat political death, but ultimatley the fact is that he is just a really annoying, petty and just BAD politician.  He gets his kicks out of stabbing fellow Dems in the back.

He is now all-in for McCain, and either McCain will win and he will get a cabinet or even a VP slot, or Obama will win and he will get his ass handed to him in 2012 - or more likely he won't run, announcing that he accomoplished everything he set out to do.  Either way, he most likely has a lucrative career as a FOX commentator.

But - his asshattery has ensured that he will no longer be a US Senator or a Democrat in the normal, non-Zell sense of the word.

Which is good.  I will Lieberman nothing but the worst.

Progressive/liberal Democrats have to stand up and take our party back away from the Reid/Pelosi/Hoyer destroy-the-village-to-save-the-village capitulators and the Lieberman elephant-in-donkey-clothing warmongers.

If we are ever to achieve anything worth having (single payer, for example) then having jokers like these guys in our causcus is poison.

You say that they 'almost lost the Senate' - well I look at what has happened since 2006 -- guess what bub: we DID lose the Senate.  Congress has basically given W whatever he wanted.  Nothing was denied the boy-king.  So who gives a damn about having 'control' so precarious that you are essentially a GOP Congress in action, but a Democratic one in name.

Not be.  Fuck 'em.  If they aren't real progressives, they can burn in hell with the GOP.


McCain sucks!
by teknofyl on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why is it that you don't apply that to Lieberm (1.00 / 0)

I am not a Lieberman fan.

If the voters of Conn were tired of him I would be 100% unconcerned if they had voted him out.

But thats not what happened.

The money givers at Dailykos.com got tired of him.

The bloggers got tired of him

The out of state activists got tired of him.

Progressives stood up and nearly gave the GOP the senate because the voters in Conn were not tired of him.

If you consider 2000 with the stand up for Nader because Gore is not liberal enough its fair to pin Bush on the very same group of people.

The consequences of actions are more important than the intentions.

Nader is a Republican tool even though he thinks his is more liberal than thou.

Lamont was a Republican tool even though he thought he was more democratic than thou.

REID saved the senate.

Reid and whatever bargain he made saved our bacon from kos and the other GOP tools backing Lamont.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:35:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Theya re tired of him now, (none / 0)

He's dead next cycle, if he lasts until then.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Reid didn't save crap.  He caved on every issue of any significance.  His Senate has been indistinguishable from a GOP Senate.

It doesn't make me happier to have my Constitution shredded by someone with a D after their name than by someone with an R.

Reid, Liberman, Pelosi, Hoyer, Bush, Emmanuel, Schumer... they are all terrible people, political cowards and fundamentally corrupt to their collective cores.  None of them could find an American value with both hands if it were tatooed on their ass.


McCain sucks!
by teknofyl on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 06:03:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Theya re tired of him now, (1.00 / 0)

Well I will agree with you with regards to Pelosi.

I don't begrudge her on the impeachment as I suspect something is going on behind the scenes that makes her reasoning much more reasonable but I can't forgive her super delegate position.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 06:09:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McTroll Alert! (1.00 / 1)

You support her for not impeaching Bush, and condemn her for asking superdelegates to make up their minds before the convention.


by Glaurung on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McTroll Alert! (1.00 / 0)

I condemn her for lying about what criteria the super delegates were allowed to use in making up their minds.

I keep an open mind with regards to the Bush thing as I see several ways it could have been a smart move...

examples

1)  Bush if faced with impeachment may have tried to overthrow the government with military force and the risk was too high for the reward seeing as how Bush was mostly declawed by the time she had the votes

2)  there seems to be a game of chess between the USA and russia and also the USA and China.  One of them seems to be giving Iran backing to act far more aggressively then is prudent.  We flipped several USSR states in the last 8 years and the missile shield thing  isn't just aimed at iran nor was the satellite shoot down done for safety reasons.  Add in the Radio active guy in England and something just doesn't add up.  After China settled the North Korea thing I tend to think China isn't gunning for us except with their economy but Russia could very well be...

3)  Far too many smart Republicans and smart Democrats have stayed with Bush even though he is clearly an idiot.  To me this indicates that somewhere there is a real threat either terrorists or a game of political, military or economic chess that we are not winning.  Smart people don't usually suffer a fool to the degree that many in both parties are suffering Bush...

And THAT is why I give Pelosi a woman who I do not personally like even a little bit a total pass on the impeachment issue.


by dtaylor2 on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 03:20:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

PUSHED TOO HARD? So do you suggest we abolish primaries? Do you even make sense? You are clearly implying primary electorate wishes are to be disregarded since they are to the left of the GE.

By the way, I am one of the libertarians on MYDD and I hated Lieberman. It wasnt just leftists. It was anyone who thought neocon types ruined our policy in this decade. Only a total moron would think Lieberman did a good job with our foreign policy which he made his personal business.


by Pravin on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (1.00 / 0)

Primaries are a poll of who is a good candidate.  Generally that poll gives a very good candidate.

Sometimes outside parties who don't get a vote decide they want to hijack the primary and select a candidate different from what the party is happy with.

Lamont was such a candidate.  $$$ from outside, campaign workers from outside ,it was an outside the state campaign.

It was as if the rich and politically active from different states felt the need to TELL the low information voters in Conn. how to vote and who to vote for.

In the end who is running the government then?  The voters?  No they were happy with Lieberman and would not have put a major primary candidate against him.

The Lamont team was trying to have a top down activist driven party and not a bottom up voter driven party.

Voters are lazy.  Activists aren't.

Voters represent the majority Activists don't.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:23:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

You deserve to get trollrated. MYDDers like Stoller and readers like I have looked at donations Lieberman received. Lieberman received not just outdside help, but he also received a lot of non CT donations. You are a freaking liar by stating the same old line Lieberman peddled to the media.

Tim Tagaris and other CT Blue bloggers were all local and they made a big difference too.


by Pravin on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 10:29:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

Dave is right, and those who run from the point need to grow up.  Put another way, for every action, there is a reaction.  Putting up a challenger to Joe Lieberman was going to generate a predictable outcome if Joe figuered out a way to beat him.  Don't tell me "Oh, but I didn't think Joe would run as independent."  Bull.

If you play the gambit you've got to win. And if you don't, you can't complain about the consquences as if they weren't expected.  To judge Lieberman for reacting the way he has is childish.  

Having said that Joe's actions truly sadden me.  However, I do respect him and I do think his integrity is unquestionable.  He is just wrong to abandon his party.

Sam


by samsimon on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 02:03:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh? (none / 0)

"However, I do respect him and I do think his integrity is unquestionable."

Where does this come from?

I actively disrespect him and I do think his lack of integrity is unquestionable.


McCain sucks!
by teknofyl on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 06:06:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

Your stance is undemocratic. Every incumbent must be challenged for the sake of healthy democracy. And an incumbent like Lieberman who has repeatedly been a trraitor to the party for the sake of one issue only  - thye middle east deserves to be challenged aggressively. He has questioned the loyalty of Dean, and others like him over the years. iN 2004, when he went to florida to campaign for Kerry, he actually said good things avbout Bush.

Please. give me a break.


by Pravin on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 10:31:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (1.00 / 0)

Undemocratic is for a Popular politician having a unpopular primary rival because the activists know only a small percentage will vote in the primary and they can leverage more political power than their numbers deserve.

It was those very same people who were howling against democracy when Lieberman ran as and indy and defeated them.

They hate democracy.

And THAT is why I hate them.


by dtaylor2 on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 03:43:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

What happened in the general election was the natural order where US voters usually give an incumbent way too much the benefit of the doubt. Plus you had the fluke scenario where the republicans turned against one of their own. It is that simple.

Lieberman lost his primary fair and square. You already made false assertions that the reason Lampont won the primary was because of outside help when it was obvious that Lieberman had plenty of outside help too. THe fact that lieberman lost his primary despite polls indicating at the time of Lamont joining that he was unbeatable shows uyou that Lamont filled a void. Just a few outsiders cant dictate an election against a powerful incumbent. lieberman had every advantage and he blew it in the primary.


by Pravin on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 12:42:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sen. Lieberman... (none / 0)

...is mad as Zell and he's not going to take it anymore.

Seriously,you would think that dangling his chairmanship would chasten him a little bit because that was one of his main arguments against Lamont (I can bring home the bacon).  

What's going to happen when he comes up again?  Is he going to try to primary as a Dem, run as an I, or switch to R (or all of the above)?


Visiting the hopium dens proudly since 2007.
by AZphilosopher on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 07:23:21 AM EST

He won't run again. (none / 0)

That's all. He knows it's either a post in a McCain administration or retire at the end of his term.

Since his term won't end until 2012 though, he could hope to get a job in a Republican administration if a Republican wins in 2012 too, even if McCain loses.


by Cugel on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:10:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He won't run again. (none / 0)

Good point.

Ew.


McCain sucks!
by teknofyl on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 06:07:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's really interesting (2.00 / 1)

is that the GOP leadership didn't try to get Joe to caucus with them.  

While granted a 50:50 split would haven given the GOP arguable control (Cheney wouldbe the tie-breaker); the real effect would have beeen the GOP trying to split political control with Reid and Co.  Imagine two years of a bipartisan controlled Senate --- it would have undercut a lot of the Democrats message for 2008.

Of course Lieberman must know he's political toast --- the Democrats can refuse to seat him on Committees next January (if the Democrats gain 2 or more seats).  Is he really going to demand any Committee seats or more importantly ranking status from the GOP?  Hardly.

Come 2009, Nutmeg State residents will probabaly start calling for his resignation when it becomes clear --- not only will he be unable to deliver the bacon, he won't even be able to bring home the scrapple


by kmwray on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 07:45:53 AM EST

Re: What's really interesting (none / 0)

Scrapple - a dish as repulsively gross as Lieberman himself.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 08:16:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's really interesting (none / 0)

Lieberman WILL get seniority status and committee chairmanships from the Republicans when he switches parties. They always want more Senators.

Plus, he'll have spent the last 8 months on the campaign trail stumping for McCain.

Assuming Obama wins, Lieberman just goes into the minority.

As for CT residents, they have nobody to blame but themselves. They can scream all they want to now, but why should Lieberman pay any attention? He isn't going to run for re-election so what does he care what they think?


by Cugel on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:14:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's really interesting (none / 0)

There was good article (I forget which magazine, maybe the Atlantic or the Providence Journal?) which showed the hurdles Lamont faced from some of the local small town Democratic bosses. Not only did they stuck with Lieberman, they were downright dismissive of Lamont in what was supposed to be some Democratic party related dinner.


by Pravin on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:09:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi Questions Lieberman's Party Standing (none / 0)

At this point you only have 4 months until the new Senate is sworn in.  Nothing major is going to pass at this point and neither party can force cloture on a bill.   Remove him from power... let the Senate flip back to the GOP if necessary and then in 4 months retake it back over.  At the very least, this will defang Lieberman.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 08:15:30 AM EST

That would be a disaster! (none / 0)

Once the Republicans adjourned Congress, Bush would immediately make hundreds of recess appointments some of whom couldn't be fired for at least a year, and all of whom would be trying to wreck the government to cause more havoc for an incoming Obama administration, because the only thing blocking him is that Congressional Democrats have kept Congress technically in session for over 1 year now.

Republicans would be grandstanding and demanding "instant action" on a huge number of bills and "Blue Sheep" Democrats would be caving in again. It would be a disaster.


by Cugel on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:21:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (none / 0)

Reid traded something for the 2 years of democratic control of the Senate.  Likely it was more than just 2 years chairmanships.

Lieberman did his part and gave control to the Democrats.

Was Reids deal 2 years of chairmanships or was it chairmanships for life?

Understand that trading 2 years control for Lieberman not losing his standing for life is probably a reasonable trade.

Further understand that the Jeffords and the Liebermans decide how to act in the future based on wether they think the Democratic party keeps its promises.

Lieberman kept his promise to deliver control to democrats for the 2 years that he could have taken it from them.  Earlier Jeffords did the same thing.

Failing to keep whatever promise was made to Joe hurts us the next time a trade comes up because the next Lieberman or Jeffords will know that the party leaders can't be trusted to keep their word.

Think about that for a bit.  We had the senate 3.5 years out of 8 in a period of time where the GOP was dominant because of Jeffords and Lieberman.

Think about the damage that Bush would have done with the Senate in his control an additional 3.5 years.

Think long and hard about what is needed to keep the next Jeffords willing to deal with us.

Its not about Joe.  Its not about Obama.  Its about the ability to make deals that are for the greater good.

Controlling the Senate for 3.5 years out of 8 was for the greater good even if Lieberman ends up VP for McCain.

Remember McCain was almost Kerry's running mate and as such is as much a Democrat as Lieberman is a Republican.  I know that isn't fashionable to say at the moment but then the truth often isn't.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:05:22 AM EST

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (none / 0)

You are simply presuming what the "deal" was, without any basis in fact.  Plus, politics doesn't lend itself to "forever" deals.  

Just be honest, you're making this argument because you like Lieberman,agree with him on foreign policy, and will be voting for McCain.  Come on, we all know what your deal is.


by HSTruman on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:15:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (1.00 / 2)

dtaylor wants us to believe that we owe loserman something, well we don't own him jack!  he's a traitor to this party, and this party is CHANGING now, so now more lozerman, no more of these 'centrist' neo cons masquerading as democrats!

At this point you need to support our nominee or change parties.  

I say that to feeblerman and i say it to anyone here.


Can I Haz More Palin?
by reebus on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:41:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (1.00 / 1)

I don't actually follow Lieberman's politics.

I want you my fellow democrats to UNDERSTAND how power works.  I want you to understand how important keeping agreements is.

There are too many saying foolish things like

"no more of these 'centrist' neo cons masquerading as democrats!

At this point you need to support our nominee or change parties.  "

Do you realize that more than 50% of the democrats voting in the general election are centrist?

Do you realize that the reason Obama is moving to the center is because thats where the votes are?

Do you realize you just invited all those voters NOT to vote for Obama?

Again

Do you realize you just invited all those voters NOT to vote for Obama?

Again

Do you realize you just invited all those voters NOT to vote for Obama?

I am attempting to give you a rudimentary education in the politics of power.  There are rules.  If you learn the rules your voice will be more powerful.  If you flaunt the rules you will continue to invite people to act against your own personal interest and feel good about yourself while doing it.

My personal interest here is to educate you so that next time when we agree YOU will be better suited to fight for the cause YOU want which just so happens to be the cause I want.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:53:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (none / 0)

You sound like a Rethuglican.


Can I Haz More Palin?
by reebus on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 05:45:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (1.00 / 1)

I don't know what the deal was.

But if by some twist of fate I ended up an independent senator and the Democrats were 1 seat shy of control...

I am pretty sure Reid would offer me any chairmanship I wanted for 2 years in exchange for voting with them.

Lieberman's chairmanships didn't dramatically increase in power during that 2 years.

Thus an interested bystander can assume that Reid offered full blanket immunity to the results of being primary'ed by those among us dead set on giving up senate control.

Think about it Zell Miller wasn't chased out of the party.

All those southern Democrats in the 1980s weren't chased out of the party.

Why?

Could it possibly be that if you chase people out of your party you soon find its too small to control the senate???

again

Could it possibly be that if you chase people out of your party you soon find its too small to control the senate???

again

Could it possibly be that if you chase people out of your party you soon find its too small to control the senate???


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:45:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (none / 0)

Chose not to address whether you agree with Lieberman, I see.  Or whether  you'll be voting for McCain.  Interesting.  


by HSTruman on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:09:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (1.00 / 1)

Will be voting for McCain unless Hillary is VP

Not familiar with Lieberman's record on a day to day but do know that he was very popular and that the segment of the party that tried to primary him was a minority of the party.  They knew he was  the choice of the voters and many felt cheated that democracy won over their attempts to subvert it.

Lieberman is Jewish and has an agenda in that regard that is more Hawkish than normal but otherwise votes democratic and has supported the party for a long time.

I choose to stand against the Lamont wing of the party now and will not be supporting their candidates as I believe there is something corrupt in the power politics of kos and friends which is a reflection of the power politics of Bush and the neocons which were clearly corrupt.

Basically I believe that the lazy majority should be more in power than the active minority.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:42:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (none / 0)

A clear majority of the Democratic party preferred Lamont, but whatever -- feel free to deny that fact if you want.

A more important question, for me, is why you are still hanging around a progressive democratic website when you plan on voting for John McCain.  I also think it's interesting that you're explicitly rejecting Hillary Clinton's call for her supporters to vote for Senator Obama, but I won't even get into that.  

In short, feel free to vote for a candidate who wants to stay in Iraq forever, bomb Iran, get into a proxy war with Russia, overturn Roe, privitize social security, and continue all of the Bush administration's economic policies.  In otherwords, someone whose views are the exact opposite of Hillary Clinton's.


by HSTruman on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:59:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (1.00 / 1)

Lesson in persuasion

1)  find common ground.

Saying that the majority of Democrats supported Lamont in his losing campaign

2)  use data

.S. Senate - - Dem Primary
748 of 748 Precincts Reporting - 100.00%
Name                     Party    Votes    Pct
    Lamont, Ned    Dem    146,587    51.79
Lieberman, Joe (i)    Dem    136,468    48.21

3)  use more data
Party             Candidate                              Votes    %    ±%
Lieberman    Joe Lieberman (incumbent)    564,095    49.7    -13.5
Democratic    Ned Lamont                            450,844    39.7    n/a
Republican    Alan Schlesinger                    109,196    9.6            -24.6

4)  restate data

Lamont won primary by 10,000 votes and then lost by 110,000 votes in the general.  This proves that the majority of democrats supported who in the general?????


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 11:18:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (2.00 / 1)

You don't seem to be very good with numbers.  The Democratic primary was the contest where Democrats chose their candidate.  A majority voted against Lieberman.  

In the General Election, Lieberman won his largest vote share from Republicans and also did well with independents.  To spell it out for you, neither of those groups are democrats.  Lamont actually won a larger share of democrats during the GE than he did in the primary.

What, precisely, is unclear about any of that?    

Oh, and I again note that you chose not to address the absurdity of your vote for McCain.  I'll accept that as a concession that you can't really support such a vote if you care at all about progressive values.    


by HSTruman on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 11:26:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (none / 0)

"Oh, and I again note that you chose not to address the absurdity of your vote for McCain.  I'll accept that as a concession that you can't really support such a vote if you care at all about progressive values.    "

I am not a progressive.  I believe in the old school democrats should be who selects our nominee school.  You know count every vote and all that.

Having GOP friendly Obama win with GOP votes just doesn't sit well.

Having Florida not count so that Dean can throw the election doesn't sit well either.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 11:56:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (none / 0)

None of that explains why you would vote for the candidate who agrees with Senator Clinton 5% of the time instead of the candidate who agrees with her 99% of the time.  

There's also a certain delicious irony in criticizing Obama for being "GOP friendly" one post after announcing that you will be voting for the Republican candidate for President.  


by HSTruman on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (none / 0)

You are acting like I need permission from you or the party to vote.

Thats the reason I am voting against your candidate.

Too much 1984 for me.

PS I am being sincere and not trying to score points it really is the 1984 connection that makes the Obama/Lamont/Kos/Dean/Pelosi movement unacceptable to me.

The idea that the passionate minority should over power the lazy majority is against democracy as I believe in it.


by dtaylor2 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:17:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (2.00 / 1)

You see, in a democracy we rely on elections to determine what constitutes a "majority."  Simply assuming that you are in the "lazy majority," whatever the hell that means, even though an election proves otherwise, doesn't actually make it so.  In fact, that constitutes an unverifiable opinion.

Vote for whoever you want, obviously.  I could care less.  I just think your self-righteous attempts to justify that vote are telling.  Essentially, your candidate didn't win so you're going to take your ball and go home.  That's your right, but lets not pretend that the effect of doing so is to provide support for a candidate who opposes the issues that Senator Clinton stood up for.  A candidate whose election would harm real people for a minimum of four years, weaken the economy, and injure our foreign policy.

Now, if your sour grapes are enough to justify such a vote, go for it.  But for those of us who care more about issues than any individual candidate, drop the hollier than though 1984 arguments.  It's ridiculous.    


by HSTruman on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:36:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (none / 0)

You cant claim passive majority when it suits your candidate. The fact that people feel strong enough to vote against Lieberman despite the advantage of incumbency and favorable home media treatment of his statements shows that Lieberman shattered the trust people had in him. Lieberman is lucky Lamont joined the race so late. What Lamont got in a few months was amazing even if Lamont failed to close the deal in the General Election. If the republicans had a decent candidat, Leiberman would have been toast. What is leiberman so bitter? A lot of establishment democrats failed to support Lamont wholeheartedly even after the primary. Does Lieberman expect to b4 treated like royalty?

You act like the Lamont/Pelosi crowd is somehow inferior to the fuckups you support. Only a total moron would think Lieberman is good for our foreign policy. Havent the last 8 years of neocon foreign misadventures been proof enough? Or are you as dumb as McCain?


by Pravin on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 12:50:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kerry was a moron (none / 0)

McCain's voting record is clear, unambiguous and nowhere near Democratic. He's got something like a 22% record with the ACLU (even Lieberman pulled 36%). All that "maverick" crap is window dressing. It's lipstick on a very conservative pig.

I do agree about the need for Dems to keep their promises.


by Neef on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:25:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's a LAUGH! (none / 0)

"Controlling the Senate for 3.5 years out of 8 was for the greater good even if Lieberman ends up VP for McCain."

McCain will never in HELL pick Lieberman. That's an idiot media idea. Most conservative Republicans would instantly bolt his campaign and sit out the election. They don't trust Joe Lieberman, no matter how much he loves the "surge."

They see him as a "liberal Democrat" for a bunch of his votes over the year and would NEVER trust him 1 (feeble, old) heartbeat away from the Presidency.

McCain picking Joe Lieberman would be the last straw to a conservative party base that doesn't trust McCain anyway and is only supporting him because they hate Obama worse.

I'd hope for McCain to be that stupid, but there's just no point in getting up my hopes for something that will never in hell happen.


by Cugel on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:28:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The issue is Reid's ability to keep his word. (none / 0)

There are many possible candidates for VP. Having McCain's name bandied about briefly is not anywhere close to what Lieberman is doing. He has been badmouthing democrats even before his primary. He showed his character when he clearly demanded understanding on one issue (foreign policy) when he was unwilling to do the same for his opponents in the party on that same issue. Do you have an answer for Lieb's hypocrisy on this issue?


by Pravin on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 12:45:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Undercut Lieberman (none / 0)

The media still treat Holy Joe like a Democrat and spokesman for Democrats.  The hit from Pelosi is necessary to drive home the point that Dems are NOT supporting McSame.

Holy Joe was the biggest Gore campaign blunder.


by bakho on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 09:34:19 AM EST

Meh (2.00 / 1)

Pelosi and Reid are cowards.  Lieberman is a filthy petty asshat.

Pelosi and Reid cowers to filthy petty asshats.  It's what they DO.  It's kind of their thing, you know?

If you have tuned in for the Bush 'presidency' then you know that no asshat is too filthy or too petty for Pelosi and Reid to bluster furiously at then completely and totally capitulate to in ebery concievable way, usually in the most politically damaging way imaginable.

Have faith and patience, and Reid and Pelosi will find some way, much more inane and hypocritical that anything a normal person could think of, to disappoint people with even a molecule of dignity or principle.

You'll see.


McCain sucks!
by teknofyl on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:34:12 AM EST

Everytime I see or read about Lieberman... (none / 0)

the song "Love Me, I'm a Liberal" by Phil Ochs pops into my head and just won't leave.

Anyone else have this problem?


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 11:41:11 AM EST


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