When will welcome news leak from Obama's VP search?

I've written before that it would be a huge mistake for Barack Obama to select a Republican for a running mate. With at least two and perhaps four Supreme Court vacancies likely before 2012, I don't want any Republican in line to inherit the presidency.

I've also said I think it would backfire for Obama to choose a woman other than Hillary Clinton for a running mate. If he wants his VP choice to help boost his support among women, he should pick the woman who received more than 17 million votes for president in the primaries.

In addition, like many Democrats who backed John Edwards in the primaries, I worry that as president Obama would do too little to rein in the excesses of corporate power in Washington.

But until I read this piece in Politico, it never occurred to me that Obama might consider going for the trifecta: a female Republican corporate hack for a running mate.

According to Amie Parnes and Ben Smith, Obama's vetting team has been floating the name of Ann Veneman, who was Agriculture Secretary during George W. Bush's first term, with members of Congress.

I can't understand what Veneman could possibly have going for her. She's executive director of UNICEF, but who cares? When she was in the cabinet, she didn't promote sustainable agriculture or sensible health protections.

The Organic Consumers Association reported when Bush appointed her that Veneman had a long history of standing with corporate interests. She had served "on the Board of Directors of Monsanto's Calgene Corporation and [was] instrumental in promoting their Biotech agenda."

As agriculture secretary she did absolutely nothing to make confined animal-feeding operations pay for the harm they cause. On the contrary, when she left Bush's cabinet, her "vision and commitment" won praise from the American Meat Institute. Politico notes:

The low-profile Republican was close to food and agriculture industries but clashed with farm-state Democrats and environmentalists during her tenure, which lasted from 2001 to 2004.

The Nation explains in more detail why Veneman would be "a uniquely awful choice" for Obama.

Presumably Obama is too smart to pick Veneman as a running mate. I assume she is being mentioned to underscore his commitment to bipartisanship, throw journalists off the scent, or trick progressives into feeling relieved if he chooses a corporate Democrat who's not "that bad." Perhaps all of the above.

But it bothers me that Obama would allow his team to float a name like Veneman, even as a diversion, especially since we never seem to hear about any progressive champions on Obama's short list for VP.

Nor do I see much sign that his vetting team is seriously considering Democrats who would quickly unite the party, such as Wes Clark or Hillary Clinton.

Please use this thread to share your thoughts on Obama's VP search.

If I were Obama, I'd probably offer it to Clark.



Display:


Obama's VP search (none / 0)

My current pick is Biden. He's great on his feet, well-known as a foreign policy leader, and he did great domestic work with the Violence Against Women Act.

Oh, and don't look for news to leak. Obama's campaign has bee highly disciplined.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 06:58:21 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP search (none / 0)

Agreed.  For the moment, my money's on Biden.  Just a hunch.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:36:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP search (none / 0)

The Right Wing has the goods in Biden:  There's a nasty plagiarism story that won't go away.

I think it pretty much kills his chances.


by dembluestates on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 08:36:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Plagiarism story isn't that (2.00 / 1)

big of a deal.  I doubt that would kill his chances.


by puma on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 08:38:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP search (2.00 / 2)

Oh, nobody cares about that anymore.  It didn't even come up this year when he was running himself.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 08:40:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP search (none / 0)

That was my take too.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP search (none / 0)

In all fairness, His presidential campaign didn't come up that much either.


by Mayor McCheese on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 10:37:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

my favorite thing about Biden (none / 0)

is that he's a strong supporter of clean elections reform.

In fact, he co-sponsored the first public financing of elections bill during the 1970s.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:32:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: my favorite thing about Biden (none / 0)

While Biden would be a fine choice, hasn't he stated he does not want the job?  


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:37:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: my favorite thing about Biden (none / 0)

Not specifically as I recall, but he may have.  Then again, they always say that.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:46:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: my favorite thing about Biden (none / 0)

IIRC, he stated he really isn't interested, but would have no choice but to accept if offered the position.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:51:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP search (2.00 / 1)

Biden seems like a strange choice to me.  Any Northeastern liberal Senator seems like an odd choice, except for Hillary Clinton (who brings along 18 million voters, bridges a divide in the party, has strong appeal to women, etc.).  Other than Hillary, other Northeastern Senators, such as Biden or Dodd, just seem like poor choices.


by markjay on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:56:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

for what it's worth (2.00 / 3)

My 60-something Jewish cousin in Florida, who is leaning toward Obama but has serious concerns about his lack of experience, mentioned that he would love for Obama to pick Biden.

In general, I think Biden would help Obama with the over-60 voters. Not that he's necessarily the best VP choice, but Obama could do a lot worse.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:08:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: for what it's worth (none / 0)

I asked my grandmother if she would vote for Obama. She had said no before but maybe now, depending on who he runs with. I got the impression that she wanted Clinton (who she voted for in the primary), but I imagine Biden is another choice that could sway her. Clark could work as well.

Obama's worst performance against McCain is among older voters. As much as I do not like Biden (establishment hawk) he may be the kind of choice, along with perhaps Clark, that could move the over 60 block.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:05:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP search (none / 0)

How does Hillary "bring along" 18 million voters? .. Aren't 99% of them going to vote for Obama anyway .. no matter who his VP choice is?


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 12:57:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP search (none / 0)

Nah, they're all going to vote for Kim Campbell instead.  Eh? :)


by auronrenouille on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 01:00:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Kim Campbell is great - haven't you seen her on (none / 0)

Bill Maher? I would vote for her in a minute, if she was american, before Obama!


by suzieg on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:27:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You and few other people. (none / 0)

Conservative seats in 1993 after Kim Campbell won the leadership race: 169

Conservative seats after the 1993 general federal election: 2

Campbell even lost her own seat (her main leadership rival, Jean Charest, won his), which is pretty embarrassing for a party leader.  I didn't follow her policies much, but her debate performances sucked.  Elle a "sucé" en français aussi.  Her whole campaign seemed to be a bunch of petty sniping at the Liberals, who at least had the guts to sum up their platform in a little red book (not fearful of chairman Mao comparisons were they!).

Didn't see her on Bill Maher.  I sure hope she's improved in the last 15 years.


by corph on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 11:39:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You and few other people. (none / 0)

While I wasn't a fan of her performance (from what I remember. I was only 11 at the time) it's hardly fair to pin that loss on Kim Campbell. People were fed up with the Progressive Conservatives (and quite angry with the recently resigned Prime Minister Mulroney) when she assumed leadership of the party. Even the most brilliant leader would have had a hard time saving the party from a humiliating defeat.

I also seem to remember hearing a lot of speculation in subsequent years is that she was given the leadership mantle precisely because they knew they were going to get crushed and the party didn't want to ruin Charest's future leadership potential (of course, he eventually ended up switching parties anyway so it didn't do them much good).


by Qpine on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:22:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's true the conservatives. (none / 0)

hit a triple-whammy with a struggling economy, hugely unpopular PM and major party split on the ideological right.  I'm sure they would have lost anyway.

But not by that much.  I can't think of a more lopsided election result in recent history.  It was a massacre, and she deserves a decent share of the blame.


by corph on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP search (2.00 / 1)

Well, obviously that was shorthand for the following:

"Hillary Clinton, who received nearly 18 million votes in the primary, and thus has a very large base of support.  Though the majority of those 18 million will vote for Obama anyway, a considerable number of them will not vote for Obama unless Hillary is on the ticket, and another considerable number might vote for him but will not work for him or donate to him unless Hillary is on the ticket, so adding Hillary Clinton to the ticket has certain advantages that adding other Northeastern Senators does not."

And, no, 99% of Hillary Clinton supporters in the primary will not vote for Obama no matter who his VP choice is.  I would say that you have underestimated those who will not vote for him by a factor of at least 10, and more likely 15 to 30.


by markjay on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 09:09:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you believe (none / 0)

that the VP position is the best use of Sen. Clinton's talents?

Her supporters describe her as an inspirational, powerful, brilliant individual. In some corners, you'll find those who believe her to be more qualified, more deserving, more capable, etc.

What would anyone wish the VP spot for a person of such gifts?

The vice president's office is for individuals who can campaign well (especially in attack mode) and who then slip into the background. While they need to be perceived as being of presidential caliber, the bar is set lower. And the first rule of VP picking: don't choose someone who will challenge you for the spotlight.

Hillary Clinton is too big a figure to fit into the restrictive role of VP. Her husband, as a former president, would probably also chafe. The two of them would draw constant media attention, to the detriment of both Obama the candidate and Obama the President.

I really don't understand the logic, beyond the kind of simplistic reductive math people use, in having Hillary Clinton on the ticket. She gives more to the country in her Senate role.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:00:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmmm. (none / 0)

What would you do if you became more and more convinced that it was going to be Veneman, and then he picked Sibelius instead?

That's just a crackpot theory I have.  Sibelius is the best of all the VP selections left (governor, early supporter, excellent advocate, moderate and crossover appeal, roots in Ohio) - BUT she's a woman and that would anger Clinton supporters (a fact which I sort of get, but when I step back for a moment I can't help but find incredibly bizarre).

So he goes for the headfake: he floats the name of somebody just totally unacceptable, and then when he picks Sibelius everyone is relieved.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:05:19 PM EST

like I said in the original post (none / 0)

I don't think it will be Veneman.

I think names like hers are being leaked to manipulate progressives into being relieved when he picks a not-very-progressive Democrat for a running mate.

I don't mind Sebelius, but this year a woman running for president got more than 17 million votes. If Obama wants to pick a woman, it should be Hillary.

I can't remember who made this analogy, but imagine if Hillary were the nominee and she picked Harold Ford as her VP. That would look like a slap in the face to Obama, wouldn't it?


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:38:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: like I said in the original post (none / 0)

Yes, but that would never happen.  Why?  For the same reason that it would be a slap in the face: Harold Ford is not in any way Vice Presidential material.  

Sibelius and Clinton have nothing in common other than the fact that they're both women: one's a governor, the other a Senator.  They have different rhetorical styles.  They appeal to different people.  They represent different parts of the country.

I don't mean to be curt but I keep saying that if people don't have anything that disqualifies Sibelius other than her gender, they should probably keep it to themselves.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 08:19:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: like I said in the original post (2.00 / 1)

Huh?  Your reply doesn't make any sense.

"Yes, but that would never happen.  Why?  For the same reason that it would be a slap in the face: Harold Ford is not in any way Vice Presidential material."

Harold Ford is as VP-materialish as Sebelius (perhaps moreso).

Hillary Clinton is certainly MORE than vicepresidential material. She's Presidential material if there ever was someone qualified to do the job.

(What is Sebelius's experience on the national scene that would help balance the ticket? Uh, none. That's a pretty big disqualifier.)

Choosing her is the only smart move.


by cuppajoe on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:00:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: like I said in the original post (2.00 / 1)

You've got to be kidding.  Harold Ford is as good as Sebelius?  Ford lost his senate race and was a conservative small-time congressman from TN.  Sebelius is a popular (progressive) governor from Kansas.


by barath on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:09:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: like I said in the original post (none / 0)

Cmon, seriously?

It's like this:

GOVERNOR---------------------congressman


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:19:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: like I said in the original post (2.00 / 1)

What can I say? I like the man. I think he's smart, talented, and good for the party.

Does losing a race disqualify a person indefinitely? Then Obama should never have been given a chance after he lost his races.

Lots of people who lost races in the past have come back to be big time winners and good in office.

Sebelius just doesn't do it for me. If he's just choosing her because she's a woman and he thinks that will placate people, then why not choose the woman who won in the primaries and has a huge number of delegates to her credit? Why not choose the woman who has more experience in her little finger than Sebelius will amass in her political life?

What does Sebelius bring to the ticket other than Sebelius = Governor? (Guess what? Bush = Governor)


by cuppajoe on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:53:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: like I said in the original post (2.00 / 2)

First off...  Ford is NOT good for the party. He undermines progressives every chance he gets. He's a Fox News Democrat.

Second... Learn something about Sebelius before you disregard her based on gender.

She's a strong progressive in a red state. She was against the war from the start. She a strong record on health care, education and the environment. She's turned repubs into dems and flipped votes.

I wish she was a man so he could pick her and not get all the whining about him trying to pick a woman not named Hillary.


John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.
by recusancy on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:32:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: like I said in the original post (none / 0)

I'm not disregarding her based on gender. How you can read that into what I said is kind of nuts.

If you know anything about me, disregarding someone based on gender is not what I'm about.

You, on the other hand, are now on record wishing Sebelius were a man.

Sebelius just doesn't do it for me as a candidate -- however much you think she's so wonderful. I don't think she'd add much in the way of balance, and yes, I do think that if he's going to choose a woman, why not choose the more experienced, more savvy, more politically adept one?

In any event, it's all moot. He'll choose whoever he wants. And squabbling bloggers won't even be a blip on his radar.


by cuppajoe on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:22:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You didn't. desmoinesdem did (none / 0)

Jess is responding to desmoinesdem, who made the ridiculous "don't pick any woman but Clinton" assertion.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 10:42:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You didn't. desmoinesdem did (none / 0)

Ah.

Thanks for the clarification. It gets a little fuzzy sometimes.


by cuppajoe on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:45:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: like I said in the original post (none / 0)

i agree it would like that with Ford. actually worse because he is an idiot with absolute no other reason to pick him but the one you imply.

in reality, a PERSON running for president got more then 17 million votes so choosing ANYONE other then that person should be just as much a 'slap in the face' under these rules.

but it isnt, and thats why politics suck.


by falseintellect on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 08:59:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: like I said in the original post (2.00 / 2)

"If Obama wants to pick a woman, it should be Hillary."

...

How can that NOT strike you as incredibly sexist?

Obama should pick whoever's best for the job, regardless of race, gender, etc.

I mean, by this logic, shouldn't Biden and Clark be disallowed because if Obama wants to pick a white male, Edwards got more votes?


by ZombieRoboNinja on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:14:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not sexist, but accurate (none / 0)

Hillary Clinton is overqualified for the job and Obama should consider himself lucky to have her.


by Betsy McCall on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:04:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She botched healthcare reform, (none / 0)

ran a poor national campaign, has fewer years of experience as a legislator than Obama, and made the wrong call on the AUMF.

Overqualified to be POTUS?  I don't think anyone is, but she sure as hell isn't.


by corph on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 11:47:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's a funny line... (none / 0)

I don't really dislike Clinton, but no one is really qualified to be president before they have been so.


by notedgeways on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:16:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmm. (none / 0)

I think one thing to look for is top see whom he is comfortable around. Interpersonal stuff. He clearly admires Sebelius, and Biden and him seemed to treat each other very respectfully during the campaign.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 01:56:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Great, 2 candidates running without any foreign (none / 0)

policy experience... what a winning ticket!


by suzieg on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:29:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When will welcome news leak from Obama's VP se (2.00 / 1)

Floating the name of Ann Veneman is a smart political tactic by the Obama campaign and nothing more.  It gives him appeal to some of the demographics he is targeting.  In this case... conservatives/women.  

He has no intention of selecting a Republican as his running mate, however as November draws closer he can claim that he took both sides of the aisle into consideration when selecting his VP.  This will score huge points among Republicans and Independents who are attracted to Obama's pledge of "bipartisanship"


by oaksmarts on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:08:17 PM EST

Obama's VP search? (none / 0)

Clark by a mile. The McSame's are terrified of him.


by buffalo soldier on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:14:02 PM EST

as far as I can tell (none / 0)

Clark isn't even on Obama's list.

I suspect that is why Obama's campaign was quick to hang him out to dry when the right-wing hate machine went after his comments on McCain.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:40:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oddly, that's exactly why... (none / 0)

I think it may really BE Clark.  Obama knows his veep choice won't make much of a media splash at this point unless it appears to be a surprising one.  Thus, I think there's a real possibility that the potential veeps whose names have been leaked are actually a red herring, and that the names we haven't been hearing--Clark foremost among them--are the real shortlist.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 08:46:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oddly, that's exactly why... (none / 0)

I don't agree at all.  With the non-stop coverage that Obama gets, his veep choice is going to make headlines for at least a week,(depending on the timing), no matter who he chooses.  If he picks Hillary, it'll be news for 2 weeks.

But, you have a point about Clark.  Candidates have a habit of picking people who aren't even are the radar, and about whom nobvody is speculating.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:56:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clark is an easy call (none / 0)

He hits all the categories and is a hell of a smart guy.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:56:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Honestly... (none / 0)

The one thing Obama really needs is for Hillary to come out and say she wouldn't accept the VP position if offered, because (litany of reasons), unless she's going to be the selection.

Until then, all "not-Hillary" picks, especially other qualified women, will be under a dark cloud.


by TCQuad on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:14:22 PM EST

Obama's VP search? (2.00 / 3)

I think Obama is getting just too cute by half.  I see no advantage in throwing out the name of a Republican female corporate hack.  It just erodes his original branding of being something other than your usual cynical  politician--unless he is truthfully considering a Republican female corporate hack for VP.  And that would be even more annoying/disturbing, if true.

I be fine with Biden, Clinton, or Clark.  

I'd think that he was so arrogant that he couldn't bear someone with any national stature as VP if he picked Siblelius.  Floating a more inappropriate VP than Sibelius certainly doesn't make me feel either more positive or negative about Sibelius.

But Obama does need to get this choice right.  Right doesn't mean right for me.  I'm probably not representative.  But he has to get it right.

According to an AOL poll in the last couple days, 65% of those polled said the choice of a VP candidate was going to influence how they voted in November.  Roughly 80% thought Veneman was a bad pick.  

Granted AOL is not a particularly representative crowd, but it does point out that the VP choice actually is important this election year.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:21:11 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP search? (none / 0)

Just want to mention that AOL polls are worthless. There is no random sample. They include anyone who decides to respond.  This is a straw poll and they were discredited many decades ago.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:29:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP search? (none / 0)

Yeah, 65% saying his VP choice will influence their vote is WAY off.  

The only people who would respond in the first place would be people to whom that's true.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:30:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP search? (none / 0)

Actually, the teaser headline was "Who is Obama's new VP pick" or something like that.  So people self selected to read the article based on that question.

They then decided to vote, based on the content of the article, which was Obama being interested in Ann Veneman.  My guess is that the 100,000 or so that voted were expressing an opinion on picking a Republican VP.  They cared enough to hit the button and say no to Veneman  80%.  

Once you've voted on the first poll question, you'll usually vote on the second poll question (and the number of respondents here is about the same).

Any poll where you are given the number of voters tells you one thing for sure.

Minimum, 65,000 people would have their vote affected by choice of VP.

In most years, people really don't give a flying floop who the VP is.  Heck Bush I won with Quayle.  Nixon won with Agnew.  

So it's striking the level of interest here.  I would expect 10% to be a large number caring about the VP pick.  


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:27:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you think Bush would have gotten elected (none / 0)

without Cheney on the ticket? I don't think so! Cheney gave Bush gravitas and reassured the country in 2000


by suzieg on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:33:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you think Bush would have gotten elected (2.00 / 1)

Yes it shows how stupid we are as a country. Cheney certainly "reasured" us.


by Politicalslave on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 09:35:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I've been for Clark for a long time (none / 0)

I also like Hagel, althought I understand all the reasons NOT to go with him.  I think that he needs military or foreign policy experience.  Hillary could do that, even though her experience is not that good.  Biden would be okay, although I think he voted to go to war in Iraq.  I think Reed voted against going in, so that would put him a bit ahead in my book.  No one knows who he is.

Clark would drive the wingnuts crazy.


by MDMan on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:22:43 PM EST

Hagel is down-the-line conservative (1.80 / 10)

on every domestic issue.

Obama is a longtime smoker with a family history of cancer.

No Republican should be in line to inherit the presidency. No way.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:41:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hagel is down-the-line conservative (1.00 / 3)

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for death wishes on a Democratic blog.


by barath on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:11:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

death wishes? (2.00 / 2)

I am dealing with reality. My own mother, who didn't even smoke, died of cancer at age 49. It happens. Obama is a longtime smoker, which increases the risk.

I don't want any Republican in line to inherit the presidency. Period.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: About a third (2.00 / 2)

About a third of Vice Presidents become President (it is 14, 15 if one counts Gore as being elected).  If the traditional list is used, four of the last ten Presidents had been Vice President.  Nine inherited the office on the death of thhe President or his resignation from office.

Frankly, many of this group are distinctly mediocre: John Tyler, Millard Fillmore, Andrew Johnson, Chester A. Arthur, Calvin Coolidge, Gerald Ford.  Theodore Roosevelt Harry Truman, and Lyndon Johnson were the stars and Truman and LBJ had plenty of foes while in office (note all three were elected President in their own right).

The "star" trio all entered the office with pretty good resumes so maybe that does mean something.


by David Kowalski on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:55:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

While quite a few VPs have become President (none / 0)

only four in the history of the United States have gone straight from VP to President without a death or resignation.  Two of these don't count (Adams and Jefferson) because it was back when the VP was the second highest vote getter and therefore from the opposing party.  That leaves Martin Van Buren and George H. W. Bush as the only two VPs to go straight to President without a death or resignation and both of them were one term Presidents.

That noted, VPs tend to get nominated quite often.  Gore was nominated, Mondale was nominated, Humphrey was nominated.  With this knowledge we can see that VPs often get nominated and lose so we should look for a VP who will not be interested in nomination like Bush did with Cheney.

My choice, which I outlined here is former Sen. Bill Bradley.  Bradley has a similar view of the world as Barack Obama, works well with Obama, has experience without being an insider, would make a great President if his duty as VP calls for it, and would  not seek Presidency in 2016.


by jlwolff on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 12:07:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hagel is down-the-line conservative (2.00 / 1)

Nonsense. Dmd was not expressing a death wish for Obama. If I point out that riding a motorcycle without a helmet is risky, does that mean I want helmetless riders to get brain injuries? That is just illogical, as is the conclusion you jumped to with Dmd's post.

Unscientific AOL polls aside, I believe that the VP choices ARE more important this time around. McCain's melanoma history, Obama's cancer risk, the high ratio of gun ownership in the neo-nazi/KKK community -- like it or not, those are risk factors that make it more likely that a VP will be called upon to take the reins.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:51:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hagel is down-the-line conservative (2.00 / 1)

I understand my comment was a bit more knee-jerk than usual, but I'm extraordinarily sensitive to comments about Obama's safety and health, given the circumstances of this election.

And, as Al Giordano has pointed out, there is a good amount of psychological research that suggests that discussion by the media/others about the safety / well-being of candidates actually helps seed the idea of doing harm in the minds of those who are less-than-stable.


by barath on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

any of us could drop dead tomorrow (2.00 / 2)

The VP choice needs to be someone who would not monumentally screw us over as president.

Since the composition of the federal judiciary matters to me, I say no Republicans in line to inherit the presidency.

Sorry if that offends you or Al Giordano.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:11:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: any of us could drop dead tomorrow (none / 0)

All I'm saying is that there are ways of making your point without being explicit about it.


by barath on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:19:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and I thought I was being discreet (2.00 / 1)

by not mentioning that putting a pro-life Republican in the VP slot would be essentially begging some nutjob abortion clinic bomber to take a shot at the president.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 12:13:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hagel is down-the-line conservative (none / 0)

OK, now that's just ridiculous.  If you really think thaty was a death wish, then I doubt there's any hope for you at all.  Uprating that comment.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:01:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Completely ridiculous (none / 0)

Your comment is absurd.  I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for stupidity on a Democratic blog.


by reggie44pride on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:46:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hagel is down-the-line conservative (none / 0)

Uprated to help offset TRs from people with poor reading comprehension, and/or reasoning skills.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:53:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hagel is down-the-line conservative (none / 0)

Uprated for the spurious troll rating.  There was no death wish in this comment.


by Philoguy on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 12:21:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've been for Clark for a long time (2.00 / 1)

Can you explain what is is you like about Hagel other than his supposed anti-war stance?

What makes him likeable to progressives? What is it about his rabidly conservative social beliefs makes him palatable?

He's on the ticket, I'm not voting for it.


by cuppajoe on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:02:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've been for Clark for a long time (none / 0)

"Can you explain what is is you like about Hagel other than his supposed anti-war stance?"

:crickets:

He's attractive, does that count?


by reggie44pride on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:48:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've been for Clark for a long time (none / 0)

True, if you're into that sort of thing.  That kind of clear-eyed, bodily symmetry, manly.... brb


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:48:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When will welcome news leak from Obama's VP se (2.00 / 1)

I have never understood the "all females are unacceptable except for Hillary" rule.  Do you apply that rule to males as well?  Is there only one man who can be chosen?  

Sounds like quite a double standard.


I voted for Hillary!
by deepee on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:23:54 PM EST

Re: When will welcome news leak from Obama's VP se (2.00 / 1)

It is.  Generally though, PUMA's tend to be nuttier than squirrell turds.  That's how they roll.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:40:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

speaking for myself only (2.00 / 2)

(and Hillary wasn't my first, second or third choice) we had an extremely close, hard-fought primary campaign.

More than 17 million Democrats preferred Hillary for president.

Although many women may be qualified to serve as VP, in light of this year's events I think it would be a mistake for Obama to pick a different woman as a running mate.

If Hillary were the nominee, I would also have advised her against picking a black running mate who was not Obama.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:44:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: speaking for myself only (none / 0)

The difference is that there are no black governors or Senators other than Barack Obama himself, so your advice not to pick a black running mate would have excluded exactly zero people.  Okay, Colin Powell.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 08:21:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: speaking for myself only (2.00 / 1)

Deval Patrick and David Paterson are both black and both governors.

However, it's still pretty pathetic that this country has only two black governors, one of whom wasn't elected to the office, and one black Senator (who won't be a Senator come January 20, 2009).


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 08:38:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: speaking for myself only (2.00 / 1)

Oh, I forgot about Deval Patrick.

I wasn't counting David Patterson, for obvious reasons.

The point though is that there are no black politicians who would reasonably be on anybody's shortlist, so it's not a fair comparison.  There are ZERO black politicians who Hillary Clinton could have chosen that could stand on their own merits - the example people always use is Harold Ford, and he's an unmarried retired congressman who lost his bid for the Senate.  The only thing that recommends him is that he's on TV a lot.  And he's the closest you get.

Women are a different story - there are a handful of high-profile Democratic women that would be reasonable VP choices regardless of their gender.

Sibelius is my favorite choice, but I won't be terribly disappointed if she isn't chosen.  It's more a matter of principle: how can you rule someone out based on gender and still call yourself a progressive?


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 08:57:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: speaking for myself only (none / 0)

> there are no black politicians who would reasonably be on anybody's shortlist

Jesse Jackson. Senior, not Junior. He is plenty qualified to be President.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:59:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: speaking for myself only (none / 0)

If Hillary were the nominee (and she was my first choice), I would advise her agianst picking any person other than Obama, even though he wasn't my second or third choice.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:06:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: speaking for myself only (none / 0)

You're inate bigotries have you twisted like a stale pretzel.


by Beren on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:18:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: speaking for myself only (none / 0)

And how many independents and Repubs for Obama will we lose if he puts Hillary on the ticket? She is the only one who could actually energize the Repugs, if only to vote against her. Sorry she would do more harm then good on the ticket.


by venician on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 12:03:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I didn't say there's no downside (none / 0)

to picking Hillary. In the original post I said I would favor Clark.

I do think there's a downside to picking someone who would alienate those who preferred Hillary. And I think that choosing a woman other than Hillary would be viewed as a slap in the face by many of her supporters.

If Obama doesn't want Hillary on the ticket, and he seems not to, he should pick someone close to the Clintons to unify the party. And not someone like Bayh or Bill Nelson, who are too conservative and would cause us to lose a Senate seat.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 12:19:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: speaking for myself only (none / 0)

well worded. amazing how some idiots can slander a commentor in just an off-the-cuff fly-by.


by swissffun on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:33:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uhm- I think you are wrong (2.00 / 1)


"Hillary Clinton would be on anybody's short list," he said. "She is one of the most effective, intelligent, courageous leaders that we have in the Democratic Party. ... I would love to have Bill Clinton campaigning for me."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/2008072 7/pl_politico/12083

And the reason why you aren't seeing a progressive is because no one has pushed for that. That's a separate issue to me. If you wanted a progressive you should have been pushing for one since the primaries. I've been saying this for a long time. Instead, its all been rabid opposition or rabid support rather than strategic placement of influence.


by bruh3 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:27:57 PM EST

you may be right (none / 0)

Certainly you are right that no powerful interest group has been pushing Obama to choose a progressive running mate.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:45:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you may be right (none / 0)

I frankly don't understand progressives. Well, actually that's not true - most progressives are middle class types who believe in these things intellectually, but not necessarily feel their lives are really at stake. My point is that the decision not to organize early and influence his choices seems a strange one. But, then our choices- Clinton or Obama- which was nothing but identity politics, seems odd to me because its as if no one cared until after they selected the nominee to think about what they stood for, and what it meant toward progressive values. Its like the Hagle trial ballon. How anyone who cares about this country domestically could say that name is beyond me. I think the same of Biden too, but anyway, as you can see I find all of this coming to the ball late by progressives frustrating. I mean- I don't have a problem with your post, but its like 6 or 7 months too late and every is headed home or to the motel from the ball..


by bruh3 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:07:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's VP search? (2.00 / 4)

I would simply not vote for Obama if he selected a Republican running mate, for one because they'd be next in line for the presidency (can you imagine choosing a candidate to run against the vice president that served under Obama?).
Hagel is only right on one issue- the war, and Veneman is such a bad choice for so many reasons, it seems ridiculous, even harmful, to float her name.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:30:05 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP search? (none / 0)

I would simply not vote for Obama if he selected a Republican running mate, for one because they'd be next in line for the presidency
So you'd rather have a Republican president than a Republican vice-president?
by sneakers563 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:16:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP search? (none / 0)

It would show me that Obama doesn't have the judgement I thought he did. I live in Kansas, so my vote for the Democrat won't make a difference.


"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:12:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

According to the WSJ (none / 0)

It's down to six names: Reed, Clinton, Bayh, Biden, Kaine, and Sebelius.  It's five now that Reed has issued his Shermanesque statement.

Kaine has run into trouble in his home state and Sebelius has not handled very well this "controversy" involving the abortion doctor.

So, that leaves Clinton, Bayh, Biden.


by Blazers Edge on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:32:17 PM EST

Re: According to the WSJ (none / 0)

I'm sure he has already chosen Clinton. Clinton would add excitement plus momentum and closure to any unity problems.


by Politicalslave on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 09:40:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When will welcome news leak from Obama's (none / 0)

OpenLeft has a completely different list: Biden, Bayh, Dodd, Clinton, Reed, Kaine, and Sebelius.  Let the rumormongering commence yet again.


by rfahey22 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:34:25 PM EST

Re: When will welcome news leak from Obama's (2.00 / 2)

And then there's the article which based on the criteria he sets- makes his short list seem confusing. none of the choices reflects what he rhectorically says he is seeking. I think I will just play wait and see rather than engaging in guessing.


by bruh3 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:38:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's more likely happening... (2.00 / 3)

Is that Veneman is thinking about endorsing Obama, but at this point her name recognition is so low as not to provide much ofany symbolism. Throw in a leak about veep speculation, all the sudden her name is in the minds of the chattering classes, and her endorsement (were it to occur) would be more meaningful - at least inside the Beltway.


My Direct Democracy
by Jonathan Singer on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:44:18 PM EST

that hadn't occurred to me (none / 0)

seems unlikely, but maybe that's what's going on.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:47:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's more likely happening... (none / 0)

Wow.

Kudos for a not-at-all obvious and yet totally reasonable speculation.  You're a clever man.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's more likely happening... (2.00 / 1)

That's a better explanation than anything else I have heard. If that is the case, I'll be impressed!


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:09:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When will welcome news leak from Obama's VP se (2.00 / 1)

Two Words:

John Edwards

I think the bogus "Love Child" story is a pre-emptive attack to try to keep it from happening, but I would still love to see it.


by ArkansasLib on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:45:22 PM EST

The story may be from the Enquirer, but (none / 0)

who can forget their "Monkey Business" cover story with Gary Hart and Donna Rice? One thing about sex scandals: where there's smoke, there's usually fire. I can't remember one that got to this point, which turned out to be a hoax. By Tuesday, the major networks will let go on this, and it will be a Tsunami.


by BJJ Fighter on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:52:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The story may be from the Enquirer, but (none / 0)

Either they are guilty of fraud or he is finished this cycle.

If Edwards was at a hotel with a woman he was  previously accused of having an affair with at 2 am he is finished this cycle.

Obama should be a friend and drop a big hint as to who his VP is so that Edwards doesn't get kneecapped now.


by dtaylor2 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:03:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I totally agree with you, and then some (2.00 / 1)

He's not only finished THIS cycle, but for good. Horsing around with some woman out in LA, while your two small children and cancer-ridden wife are back home is, let's face it, despicable. And I liked Edwards...actually went to his rally when he came here to Tucson.

I heard Lawrence O'Donnell on the tube earlier this week. He's an ardent Obama supporter, and an MSNBC analyst who describes himself as a "European Socialist". He stated that in his judgement, the Enquirer story represented "very solid reporting". At that point, I knew the jig was up.


by BJJ Fighter on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:12:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

well, Lawrence O'Donnell (none / 0)

has had it in for Edwards for a long time. He once wrote that Edwards might just turn out to be another white guy standing in the way of a black man.

We'll know whether the story is true when the print edition of the Enquirer comes out. If there are photos to back up the story, he is history.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:19:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, Lawrence O'Donnell (none / 0)

I don't think who politicians sleep with is as important as their ability to govern.

Its the guy who has a recession who says but I don't cheat on my wife so its ok that is a problem.

presidents affect hundreds of millions of people with their actions.

Affairs affect maybe a hundred tops.

if Edwards is good news but he had an affair after a very emotionally difficult period in his life then we should keep him

NEXT cycle.

he is done for this cycle unless there is nothing to the Nat EQ story


by dtaylor2 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:02:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, Lawrence O'Donnell (none / 0)

To be fair, he didn't say that: he said that he was standing in the way of two historic candidates.

Then it got worse: he's a serial loser, addicted to attention, etc.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:54:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The story may be from the Enquirer, but (none / 0)

And to be clear by at a hotel I mean physically at the HOTEL not her room.


by dtaylor2 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:13:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When will welcome news leak from Obama's VP se (none / 0)

I think it's a pretty dangerous idea to make a vice presidential pick about winning an election.

If Obama truly thinks he would be better able to govern, that the executive office would be a more cohesive unit without Clinton or Clark in the VP spot, if there's other candidates that more share Obama's vision of the world and are more in line with his policy ideas than Clinton and Clark, then why should he still be obliged to pick them?

The election is only two months, but if he wins, he has four years (at least) of working with his selection. I like the idea of picking an elder statesman, someone who's not pandering to a gender, ethnic group or geographical region.

I think Bill Bradley, although not the most vicious attack dog (and with Obama's PR team, I'm not sure the VP has to be) is the best selection (followed closely by Biden).

If Obama picks someone that reeks of pandering, then it undercuts his message of not being a usual politician.


by mrpondeli on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:56:27 PM EST

Re: When will welcome news leak from Obama's VP se (2.00 / 2)

I never much cared for Bradley, especially after the 2000 primaries. He came off as doctrinaire, smugly superior, and was a very sore loser to Gore - barely willing to flaccidly endorse Gore months after the race was decided. Plus, two professorial personalities might make a good team in a college faculty, but Obama needs someone with hands-on experience to provide hard nosed advice. He has got the high thinking big picture part covered himself.

> not the most vicious attack dog

You may say that again as many times as you like.  :-)

> other candidates ... more in line with his policy ideas than Clinton

Some people on this board never tire of saying that Obama and Clinton are something like 96.3% alike in voting, and their policy positions are so close, with a few exceptions, that there is no reason any Clinton voter should not vote enthusiastically for Obama. Is 96.3% alike not good enough to be considered for VP? What is the cutoff? 96.4%?


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:19:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the money I gave Bradley in the 2000 primaries (none / 0)

is the campaign contribution I regret more than any other I've made in my life.

At the time, I thought he was more electable than Gore, and I was mad about the Clinton administration's less-than-stellar environmental record.

But since then Bradley has shown that he's no kind of leader, and Gore has turned out to be 10 times the statesman I thought he was.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 02:21:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the money I gave