Sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me

by itsthemedia, Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:43:22 AM EST

I cannot speak for all Clinton supporters, but if I read their comments right, what they are looking for the most at this point is the one thing Obama supporters have the hardest time giving them. In a word, respect.

"Give it up", "Get over it", "You lost", "We don't need you", "Your time is over", "What do you want from us?", "Her campaign was incompetent", "You have to support Obama or else XYZ", "You are not a real Democrat", etc., etc. What is sadly lacking in all those attempts at reconciliation, or communication, or huliliation, or whatever they are intended to be? Respect. Respect for the 17+ million voters who came out to vote for Hillary, respect for the blood, sweat, and tears expended by volunteers on her behalf, respect for the candidate herself, who has withstood the scorn of the media and the right wing and now the opinion-makers in her own party, and is still standing.

Now, lets flip it over - in all the Clinton supporters attempts at reconciliation, or communication, or whatever, to Obama supporters, what is the one element that I most often see lacking? In a word, respect.

We will start to heal as a party when we collectively find the maturity within us to respect each other. To be honest, I am shocked that I would have ever felt the need to point that out to a group of self-described Liberals and Progressives. I have always thought of Liberalism as the most "grown-up" political philosophy around, but the past few months here on MyDD have me doubting my assessment.

Respect is earned. Obama and Clinton have both earned my respect. I do not have to like Obama, or trust him, but I can respect his skill and his accomplishments, and to some extent, his vision. Even if you hate Hillary Clinton with a passion, if you have any intellectual honesty in you at all, you can find something in her that deserves respect. "Give the Devil his/her due," as they say.

I can likewise respect that subset of Obama and Clinton supporters here on MyDD who have earned my respect. One of the ways you earn respect is by showing you understand the concept. And the bare minimum requirement for understanding respect is to show courtesy.

Courtesy is owed.
Respect is earned.
Love is given.
-- Kinky Freidman's mom




Tags: respect, unity, maturity (all tags)

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tips (2.00 / 11)

The media, on the other hand, has not earned my respect. If they were part of any other profession, 95% of them would have been fired for malfeasance.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:46:31 AM EST

nah more like (2.00 / 3)

99%

Dan Abrams comes close to being decent in that he doesn't fawn over McCain (his winners and losers section is bunk).

The media has been a steaming pile of fail.
They smeared Clinton with sexist twists
They smeared Obama with racists twists
The let McCain have a free pass.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:48:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nah more like (2.00 / 5)

P.S. When they write the history of this campaign, their own role will magically disappear.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:53:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: tips (2.00 / 4)

amen!  do i get a unicorn?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:50:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Here you go (2.00 / 7)

Unicorn and Rainbow

God, I'm easy.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:56:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ooooh, that's a pretty one! n/t (2.00 / 2)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:57:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well said. (2.00 / 4)

In that "What do you want?" diary, the diarist asked why anyone should listen to us (Clinton supporters) and how we could ever be considered legitimate supporters of Obama if he became the nominee. Classy stuff, to be sure. I think we're all pretty tired of it.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:57:03 AM EST

Re: Well said. (2.00 / 4)

I am starting to see some of the Obama supporters getting tired of it as well. They realize how counterproductive it is to attempt to trash-talk people into voting for your guy. In the end, there isn't much that Clinton supporters like me can do to talk the Obama trash-talkers into standing down - not even with Unity Unicorns (TM). The Obama supporters who understand respect are going to have to explain it to them. The reverse is true for us Clinton backers.

You, Sricki, have been doing your best to bridge the chasm for some time now. I hereby award you a "lifetime achievement Unity Unicorn":

unicorn

(Based on the color scheme, I think this is a Slytherin Unicorn. If you prefer another house, let me know, and I will see if I can find a horse of a different color.)


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:14:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Just what I always wanted! (2.00 / 2)

Slytherin rules! Much cooler than those damn do-gooders in the other houses. Snape's my hero.

You're right, I think the Obama supporters will ultimately have to reign in their own people. And I'm seeing more and more of them call other Obama supporters out when they go too far. I've even seen quite a few "stop bashing Hillary" diaries on dKos. Granted, they elicit mixed reactions... but it's an excellent sign. A step in the right direction, at least.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:24:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

big 'em up for the hufflepuff house. (2.00 / 2)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:30:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Too little too late? (2.00 / 5)

It's a little late in the day for dKos diarists to get on the "stop bashing Hillary" bandwagon. If more of them had stepped up to the plate earlier, there would be far less animosity from Hillary supporters toward Obama himself.

It's sad that the fervid passion of some Obama supporters was allowed to so taint their candidate's image, and it's sad that Kossacks stood back and allowed Hillary supporters to be hounded off the site.

It is a step in the right direction, though. But I will never go back to dKos because I will never be able to trust it again as an honest purveyor of accurate information. Not that I'll be missed or anything... ;-)

Yeah-- Slytherin rules!


by Swedie on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:21:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Too little too late? (2.00 / 2)

The thing is, it's very difficult for supporters of a cause to switch modes so quickly. This has been a very hard-fought contest with surprises, stunning reversals, some dirty play, and a deeply held belief by supporters of both sides that their candidate was right or best or the only one who could win in the fall.

So we fought.

Now we have to look across the field at the team we've been trying to beat, walk across the field, shake hands, and say good game. That's not so hard to do after a mid-season little league game, but . . .

. . . I was watching the '86 World Series with a Mets fan (bastard!). The guy (a great guy in general) was absolutely malicious when it came to baseball. After game six, he called his dad (a lifelong Sox fan) collect, from Bill Buckner. He was that kind of guy.

Near the end of game seven, he was all full of gloating. In a room full of crushed Sox fans, he was all nya nya, nya nya. We all wanted to punch him. Victory had been ours (one strike away!), and now it was gone.

Then they showed that close up of Wade Boggs crying (and I don't bring this up because of the crying per se; just that it's one of the great 'agony of defeat' moments in my memory).

He kept trying to tease us for a few more minutes. He was so happy his Mets had won. He tried making fun of Boggs (cry baby!). But something in the look in the player's eyes, the way we reacted to it, the silence in the room. He got it that the time for teasing, for celebratory taunting was over. Sure, he could still be happy his guys had won, but no need to rub our faces in it.

But it takes a moment like that--where you recognize the humanity in your opponent--to realize that, shit, we're all friends here.

That moment's slowly coming to supporters on both sides. To be angry that it didn't occur back in March or even early May is to miss just how damned hard-fought this contest has been.

But at some point, I hope we can all muster up the humility to walk out to the middle of the field, slap hands, and say good game to each other.


by vadasz on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:13:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Kudos for your tone (2.00 / 1)

It is exactly right. And your analogy was good, well spoken, it even made me smile.

The issue I have, however, is my disillusionment with people I had respected who are supposed to be on the same team that I am on. The fight for "team captain" should not have devolved into such a debacle.

The other team is the Republicans, not other Democrats.

Imagine having reached my ripe age still being capable of disillusionment. I have to chuckle at myself.

"Friends" do not try to drive their "friends" out of the stadium. I expected better from my fellow progressives. I did not expect them to indulge in character assassination of other Democrats. I did not expect them to lie to/about each other, to distort facts, to present opinion as fact, to fail to support each other even when opinions and passions are at variance.

I am deeply disappointed in the failure of so many self-identified progressives/liberals to live up to their own credo of being reality-based and inclusive. That goes for supporters of both candidates, by the way.

This is not a game, and it involves more than hurt feelings. Mark Twain said, "It is not the truth that hurts. It's the sudden realization of it." The sudden realization for me was the fact that my fellow progressives were, in the end, little different from their conservative counterparts in their willingness to be dishonest and cruel when it suits their purpose.

Obama and Hillary have fought hard and played a good game. Their supporters? Not so much. (You, and a few others, are exceptions.)

At the end of the day I will vote for the Dem nominee because I love my country and the Constitution too much to do otherwise, and of course either candidate will be such a vast improvement over Bush/McCain.

But please don't ask me to place trust again in people who have, IMO, relinquished any right to be considered either ethical or trustworthy.


by Swedie on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:14:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kudos for your tone (2.00 / 1)

> I am deeply disappointed in the failure of so many self-identified progressives/liberals to live up to their own credo of being reality-based and inclusive. That goes for supporters of both candidates, by the way.

Well put. In some of the more extreme cases, I wonder whether we have not had a few sightings of that rare bird, the left-wing authoritarian follower. Its right wing-cousins are as common as rats, but the LWAF has been said to be extinct. Not so, I fear.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:27:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sock it to me, (2.00 / 2)

This latte-drinking, elitist, cultist Kool-Aid drinker is willing to give you all the respect you deserve.

But you have to understand that respect is an earned quality.  And as long as we hear phrases like the list above coming from Clinton supporters (and don't be disingeneous and claim that the negativity is a one-sided, or even lop-sided phenomena), it's going be a long process.


by steampunkx on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:42:58 AM EST

Re: Sock it to me, (2.00 / 1)

I don't get the point of this comment. You seem to be using the same words I have used in the diary to say the same things. Are you lecturing or correcting me, or simply amplifying what I already said?


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Wed May 28, 2008 at 01:07:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Things have been getting better. (2.00 / 2)

The whole RFK flap was a huge setback.  I completely admit to have a very short fuse the last few days.  I think that after this is over, we'll be able to come together.  I had some heated debates today that ended with, "Let's agree to disgree" rather than, "You're a troll."  I think that's a good sign.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:48:34 AM EST

Re: Things have been getting better. (none / 0)

Yes, it was a setback. I had been very encouraged by the response to my "What I Like About Your Candidate" game.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/23/1302 2/0761

With one or two childish exceptions, everybody responded with what seemed like real mutual respect. People seemed almost relieved to have a space where they could feel safe saying something nice about the opposition. A day or two later, the RFK flap hit, and I felt like all that progress had just gone up in smoke. Discouraging. But wait a week or two. Here's my predicted timeline:

May 31: FL and MI are seated by simply reverting to the original rule before the death penalty was imposed. Each elected delegate will count 1/2, and the supers are seated as is. Both camps are unhappy, meaning it was a fair resolution.

June 1: Clinton wins the PR primary.

June 3: Obama wins MT, SD could go either way.

June 4-7: Most of the remaining supers come out for one or the other, pushing Obama over the top. After he crosses the magic threshhold, the remaining supers climb on the band-wagon, including some turncoats.

Around June 7: Clinton, in a classy speech to supporters, suspends her campaign, keeping her pledged delegates for now, but vowing for the 1000th time to support the nominee. A few vocal members of the Obama media complain that she suspended rather than endorsing. How could she be so evil? Is she planning to have him killed? Most of the rest of the media busts into a spontaneous chorus of "Ding-Dong, the witch is dead". The whole thing has the usual circus-of-the-damned atmosphere we have come to know and love.

June 7 or 8: Obama gives a gracious victory speech, full of respect for Clinton and her coalition, and asking for unity. Healing begins.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Wed May 28, 2008 at 01:57:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your title is apt with the passing of (2.00 / 1)

Dick Martin this weekend. You bet your bippee it is.


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:33:08 AM EST

Re: Your title is apt with the passing of (none / 0)

I didn't know. :-(

Say goodnight, Dick.
"Goodnight, Dick."


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Wed May 28, 2008 at 01:58:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sock it to me, (2.00 / 1)

It occurred to me the other day that the main reason for all the hurt feelings and anger is the gol' darn internet.  In the past we would be disappointed in the way an election turned out and we could only gripe to our relatives and friends about it. Now we can read and reply to all kinds of vitriolic comments we would most likely never come across in our circles. Plus people will say much meaner things on the internet where they can be anonymous. I really do believe that the ability to post on the internet about the election has fanned the flames quite a bit. As an older person I remember elections where people were very invested in their candidate and were upset or angry but not to the level we are seeing this primary season.

That said, I wish people would stop writing diaries asking others to respect their side or to just get over it or just accept reality or any of that. It really will come in time without anyone saying any of those things.

by Becky G on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:02:28 AM EST

Re: Sock it to me, (2.00 / 1)

My intent was to ask both sides to start trying to earn the respect of the other side. Rereading the text, it may seem one sided because there is only one list of examples - from the Clinton supporter's perspective.

Becky, I hereby deputize you to add a comment providing a parallel list of 5 or 6 short quotes of disrespectful things Obama people see from Clinton people. I will update it to the main diary (only lightly excercising my godlike prerogotive to edit the content of my own diary).


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Wed May 28, 2008 at 01:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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